Ep.063: The Burden of Proof (Part 2): “Good versus Bad” and the Science & Evidence for God. Plus What Happens When You Turn 18?: Spirituality w/ Mark Zaretti

Episode transcript:

[00:00:10] Hello, this is Mark from The Way Back Group, and this is episode 63 of the discussing Spirituality Live show that was recorded on the 12th of June, 2025. And look, this one follows on from episode 62. But don’t worry if you haven’t heard episode 62, but I would kind of recommend maybe listening to one as well after this or some other time. Because what we’re doing is looking at how we can explain spirituality to people that aren’t necessarily spiritual, using everyday phenomena and things that anyone can get access to, including kind of mainstream science. Because believe it or not, even things like the Big Bang Theory about the origin of the universe does actually point towards spirituality. And don’t take my word for it. I’m going to read you some quotes later on in this episode and you’ll be surprised who said them. And we’ve got some other topics as well, including what happens when someone turns 18 and becomes an adult from a spiritual point of view. But anyway, without any further ado, I welcome you to episode 63. And oh, one last thing.

At the end of this live show, right after the credits, I went back into the live show and I did some more broadcasting. So most of the people would have missed that. But I’m going to leave that extra bit at the end of this episode so you can get it. That’ll be the bonus thing for this week. Enjoy this episode and I will catch up with you very soon for more Discussing spirituality.

And we are live. I apologize for that slight delay. It’s a live show and it is Thursday 12th June, 2025. And this is episode 63.

You’re probably wondering what’s going on with the audio. Don’t worry, there was an issue, but I resolved it in a couple of minutes. So just bear with me. And yeah, you’ll have the normal audio quality in a short while and you can just see Jesse in the background there. And we’re going to be looking at Spirituality and the Burden of Proof Part two. So this is kind of following on from last week’s episode. But don’t worry if you haven’t seen that episode. Not to worry, kind of. Each episode does stand on its own, but you can always go back and listen to that podcast or watch that show again here on Rumble. The other things that we’re going to be looking at, well, let’s have a look at the stuff that we’re going to be looking at today. So if I click on this then, as well as the Proof Part two, we’re going to be sharing some inspiration. So one of you has kindly sent me a message with something they’d like to share and we’re also going to be looking into. So someone’s turned 18 now, what. And that’s obviously from a spiritual perspective.

And more on that to come, obviously. Every week we do a bit of reading from the book and as ever, Q and A. So in the chat, if you fire off any questions that you want, so anything I say during the live show or anything that comes up, if you put question mark, question mark, question mark, then I’ll see it in the chat and then we’ll tackle all of those questions at the end, if there’s time, which there normally is time.

So let’s just click a few buttons down here and we can get going with the live show. But thank you to Marigold0 and Millie, who said hello in the chat already and it’s good to have you with us and wherever you’re listening right now from, including if you’re listening again on the podcast, then thank you for joining us.

So, as I say, without any further ado, let’s have a look at the first thing I wanted to share with you. So this is actually a picture that someone shared in a private group chat on Telegram, and it’s the saying, I am the way, the truth and the life from the Bible, John 14:6.

And what’s nice is this is this is one of these kind of adult colouring in books and the person’s colored it in beautifully. And they just sent this picture to share inspiration and he actually sent it to me privately and I said, is this something that you’d like to share with wider group? And what this was in response to was I shared a poem that had been written by someone who has sadly passed away, but it was a nice way of kind of then still inspiring us even now.

And I kind of invited people to share any poetry or creative stuff that they’ve done that they find inspiring. And so this person sent me this and said, you know, in fact, here’s the message. Obviously I’ve blurred out certain bits, but they basically said, this is really inspiring. And I said, would you like me to share it on the show? And they said, I’m happy to.

And then they gave a bit more context, which I thought was really lovely. So they said, the colouring is peaceful.

And I listen to the podcast at the same time. So they watch the show, then they listen to the podcast while they’re doing the colouring in, and they go on to say some I’ll give as gifts on the frame, I think so. What I think is it’s not just this picture. They do other pictures.

Let’s get back to that. And they also leave them around the house. And they go and say, it’s also a statement when people visit my home.

Just realize the mic’s not in front of me. So that’s probably better.

They said it’s also a statement when people visit my home about where our hearts and intentions are and might open up conversations.

So I apologize. I didn’t have the mic there. And Millie’s actually saying the sound doesn’t seem right. You sound like you’re speaking in another room. Yep, that’s because the mic was.

If I show you the mic was.

And now it’s back here where it belongs. So apologies, guys, but there we go. So this person that’s shared this artwork. Thank you. It’s beautiful. And I hope that the words I am the way the truth and the life inspire people.

And Millie in the chat is saying, much better, thank you. Referring to the sound. So thanks for letting me know anyway, Millie. And you know, these things happen.

But luckily I’ve got you guys to keep an eye on me and make sure I get things right.

So let’s get into the episode then. And the first thing I wanted to kind of recap. So this is part two of the Burden of Proof. And in the previous episode. And I’ll put links to everything that I referenced. So don’t worry, you’ll find the links. In the write up of the podcast, we talked about some that as a spiritual person, quite often, because what we’re discussing is invisible to the naked eye. It’s much more of an experiential thing. It’s an energy thing, but it’s not tangible. Then it’s harder to prove it. And so we always come to these kind of discussions with others with an implied burden of proof that when we’re talking about intangible things, that the onus is on us to kind of convince people. I do argue against the need to convince people. I think it’s. It’s much more when people are ready. But the whole premise was to start looking at, well, is there actually proof out there that is available to anyone who has the intentional desire to seek a bit more truth? And to start that discussion, I wrote out a series of spiritual propositions. In other words, simmering down spirituality to nuts and bolts. What are we implying when we talk about spirituality? And so last week we looked at the first three. So you are More than a physical body and brain, your thoughts affect you and your environment and there are unseen dimensions. And I shared lot of scientific and kind of mainstream evidence to back these things up, which is. Is great.

This week we’re going to be looking at there is good and bad.

And that’s the only one we’re going to be looking at today. Because there’s other things I wanted to get into.

And when I got to this one, I suddenly realized, wow, I’ve maybe made a bit of a rod for my own back here, because how am I going to find mainstream, nay, scientific evidence that there is good and bad?

And so, yeah, I did exactly what the exercise is. There are other things we’re going to be covering in future weeks, so I’ll just skip past them for now.

But the approach is, can we prove that there is good and bad using evidence that anyone can get, in other words, not relying on spiritual experience or spiritual knowledge, but just, is there evidence in the world around us that there is good and bad? And avoid referencing any religion or belief systems because again, if for someone to understand you they need to adhere to a particular doctrine, then that alienates certain people.

So that’s the challenge. Can we prove that there is good and bad based on evidence that anyone can get in the world around us? That is our mission for today. And the other caveat I kind of said last week was that I’m not going to spend a lot of time trying to get the evidence. If it can’t be got within an hour or so of searching and looking, then most people would have given up at that point and therefore it’s out of their reach, metaphorically speaking. So we need to be able to find evidence quickly at our fingertips, so to say. So that’s the mission, should we choose to accept it.

And I did.

So that’s what we’re going to look at today.

So let’s have a look into this then. The premises or the proposition is that there is good and bad.

So what I’m going to do is I’m going to share some things that people could do. And I’m asking you the question, which of these things do you think are acceptable? I’m not saying is it legal?

There’s a lot that is maybe deemed illegal. Like in America, you can’t cross a street except at a zebra crossing. That’s not good and bad, that’s just law.

So we’re not talking about law, we’re talking about good and bad. So I want you to ask yourself not what do you think other people would think, but what do you think to this particular point? And then I’m going to suggest, well, not suggest that we do them, but state things that may happen. And you just need to decide if it’s good or bad. Okay, so the first one is giving food to a hungry person.

And obviously, as you know, you’re listening or you’re watching this, then you’ll have an instant kind of instinct. And that’s what I want you to go with for you. Is giving food to a hungry person good or bad? And don’t let, let’s not get kind of caught up in too much detail.

Like, well, you know, I once, you know, there was a guy and he, he was pretending to be hungry and he wasn’t sincere and I gave him food. And then I found out, let’s not worry about the fringe kind of situations. Let’s just focus on the general concept of giving food to hungry people or a hungry person. Okay, so good or bad?

You already know the answer.

So the next one.

Killing someone to take their possessions, good or bad?

Helping an elderly person to cross a busy street, good or bad?

Hurting animals for fun, good or bad?

Supporting someone who is experiencing grief.

Again, I ask you, is this good or is this bad?

Sexually abusing children, is this good or is this bad? Now, I know I’m picking some heavyweight examples here, but the best way to test a theory or a hypothesis is to be very know, kind of go to the extremes. I’m not advocating for any of these things. I’m not suggesting that we do or do not do any of these things. I’m simply stating these are things that could happen.

Do you think they are acceptable? In other words, do you think they are good or bad? Okay, that’s the question.

So this is obviously your opinion is your opinion. My opinion is my opinion. Let’s see if we agree.

Okay, so this is how I scored these things. So giving food to a hungry person, good.

Killing someone to take their possessions, bad.

Helping an elderly person to cross a busy street, good.

Hurting animals for fun, bad.

Supporting someone who is experiencing grief, good.

Sexually abusing children, bad.

Okay, so I would guess that you and most, let’s say decent people would agree 100% with what I have postulated there.

So what’s the point I’m making?

That we can look at a situation or look at an act or a deed and know without a legal framework, without a religious framework, without any kind of external framework, from our own perception, we have a sense of what is right and wrong. Good and bad.

Okay, now this is theoretical.

The question is. Or the hypothesis or the proposition spiritually is there is good and bad.

Now, I had a. Just as an aside, I had an interesting chat with someone. I was in the park walking dog the other day, and I was doing the kind of collie training stuff. So down, wait, throw the ball, run round, come here. And someone came up because they were quite interested. They’re kind of like, wow, he’s doing really well. And I said, yeah, he’s only six months old, talking about Jesse down there. And they had a dog that was quite a bit older. And we just got chatting and they said to me, oh, so what do you do? And I said, well, I’m a writer. And naturally they said, well, what kind of things do you write? And I said, well, spiritual stuff. And she went, I do that as well. And then. And then she made a comment about. I’m surprised you admitted it, though, because most people won’t admit to that stuff. And I said, no, I’m very comfortable with what I do and I’m past worrying about what people think. If people are spiritually awake, they’ll be curious, and if they’re not, then that’s fine, you know.

But the point was, we got onto a bit of discussion and this person does what they do, and it’s more about mediumship and stuff.

And they made a suggestion that there is only good.

And I thought, that’s interesting, okay, because if you followed my work, you’ll know that I’ve shared openly a lot of the experiences I’ve had over many, many years. And this preposition or proposition I’m making that there is good and bad, is actually really important. And you could say there is yin and yang as well.

So if there is only good, then the things that we’ve highlighted as bad in this list, like killing someone, hurting animals, and abusing youngsters, wouldn’t be happening. So I ask you the question now, do these things happen in life?

And sadly, yes, these things happen all the time.

And I don’t want to dwell on it, but do we have prisons and are there a lot of people in there? And when I talk about prisons, by the way, because we’re talking about evidence, there are people in prison who are there because of contract law.

In other words, they have broken a rule, a law of man, which may not actually be wrong, but the establishment doesn’t like it. So, for example, non payment of taxes or something like that.

So I’m not talking about everyone in prison, but there are people in Prison, who you or I would look at what they have done, and if it’s on this list or other things similar would say that was bad.

You know, if they killed someone for financial gain, that was bad. Okay? So I’m talking about those people that are in prison are a demonstration that these things actually do happen. So therefore, is there evidence in the world around us that there is good and bad?

Well, have we ever given food to a hungry person or seen others do it? Yes. In which case a demonstration of good. Have we ever heard story or, you know, unfortunately maybe come closer to it of someone being killed? We all watch the news, so sadly we know that that happens. So there is evidence of bad and so on. We could go through this list. I don’t want to focus on the bad. But what this is saying is that the world around us demonstrates that there is good and bad. Okay? And as we did last week, it might seem very nuts and bolts and very basic, but that’s the whole point. I want to take something that’s a spiritual proposition and say, okay, can we back this up with the material world and the world and events around us?

Because maybe you’ve heard of this thing called as above so below.

And it’s the idea that whatever there is on a kind of like on a grander scale is demonstrated in everyday life or the macrocosm is demonstrated in the microcosm. And so there is good and bad is being demonstrated and the evidence of it is in, in the. In the prisons. So now what I’d like to do is flesh out a bit the spiritual perspective of this.

And it’s still going to be experiential evidence based, in other words, what anyone reasonable could observe. But I just want to give it a little bit more meat on the bones from a spiritual point of view to explain a bit more about why there is good and bad is actually a spiritual proposition. Okay?

So in last week’s episode, we focused. One of the topics we covered was that we have thoughts and that thoughts affect things. They affect us and they affect our environment.

And so one of the spiritual understandings that we can hypothesize and.

And I will demonstrate in a minute is understanding that we have thoughts. So see number two from last week. And then that thoughts have direction.

Let me explain.

So some thoughts move us closer to goodness, and some thoughts move us away from goodness. And we’ve just covered a list of things in that previous slide so we could talk about if you compassionately decide to give someone who’s hungry some food. That didn’t happen spontaneously. You had a thought, oh, that person looks hungry. I’ve got a bit of spear change.

Should I get them some food maybe? You went up to them and said, are you hungry? Can I get you something? And then you went in a shop and came back and gave them something. But there was a lot of thought that triggered those actions. That’s an example of some thoughts move us closer to goodness. In other words, we demonstrated goodness because of the thoughts we entertained, whereas some thoughts move us away from goodness.

And I won’t go for one of the heavy examples. But for example, if you were to steal, you see something, no one’s around, you think to yourself, well, no one’s going to notice. That guy’s just dropped his wallet. I’ll just help myself to what’s in it, maybe. Okay, well, it started with a thought. You still had the idea. You rationalized it, you reasoned it, you figured you get away with it, you made a choice and it moves you away from goodness. And in other words, by time you’ve done the action, you’ve already had the thought. And it’s the thought that actually determines the direction. And so what would this kind of, how would this map out?

Then we’ve got this smiley face at the top there, and that’s good.

And then we’ve got this red face at the bottom, and that’s bad or evil. And then in the middle, so there’s an arrow going up to good and there’s an arrow going down to bad, and a question mark in the middle. So the question mark is the thought.

And is this thought going to move us more towards good or more towards bad?

And spiritually speaking, if we start to think in those terms and recognize that every thought has, has a direction, then we start to understand one of the fundamental principles of spirituality, which is that our thoughts take us in a direction. And what this picture is showing us. And unfortunately I’m kind of covering the.

Let’s see if I can move. There we go. So what this picture is showing us is that there is really only two directions, more towards good or the other direction more towards evil. And you know, if we take nothing else home from today, that’s a really good thing to take home, is that our thoughts move us in one of two directions.

And you know, we could become over analytical.

But this is where in the past people have talked, you know, questions have been on the show. And I’ll put a link to the episode where we covered it where it’s, it’s like, what exactly is neutrality or how can we be more spiritual? And I talk about practical way of. If you just pause before acting, then what you’re actually doing is you’re giving yourself time to look at the thoughts that you’re having and go, oh, hang on a sec, that’s not a very good thought.

What would be a better thought, ergo, or leading to what would be a better action or what would be a better outcome?

And the neutrality and the being presentness of spirituality is what affords us that opportunity to rather than just react habitually, to stop, maybe challenge our habitual actions and to actually consciously reject negative thoughts or thoughts that would move us towards badness and choose positive thoughts. So even if the first thought was negative, we can interrupt the process. And in so doing, we become more good. We move towards goodness because thoughts move us in a direction. So there’s a practical application to this, bringing it back down to everyday life.

The question you could ask someone is, okay, pay attention to your thoughts. Are some of them more good and some of them less good? Is the outcome of your thoughts going to move you more towards being a good person or more away from a good person? Then what you’re doing is you may be making someone become more conscious of what they’ve always been doing but never paid attention to before. So interesting stuff.

Now we have energy.

Let me explain. So we have good energy and examples of that because we’re talking about good and bad. So we’ve talked about thoughts having a direction that is either good or bad. Now I want to take on the idea of energy.

So you could say to people, well, we have good energy.

What do we mean? Well, if someone is feeling joy, love, happiness, laughter, playfulness, innocence, kindness, all of these things, just think about being around loving kids, just playing and, and giggling and, you know, when the children or the grandchildren are laughing, it just lifts people up. It’s because of the good energy that they have.

And similarly, there is bad energy. So have you ever been in a room or entered into a room where someone is hateful or angry, or in pride or depressed or being cruel, manipulative or selfish?

These are all examples of bad energy.

And just as I’ve just put it to you, if you say to someone who maybe hasn’t thought about things spiritually, say, well, have you ever been in the presence of someone that is full of love and joy and happiness? Is that nice?

Okay. Have you ever been in the presence of someone that’s in a rage of anger and cruelty and being selfish? Yeah. Which would you prefer to be around.

Now, if there was no such thing as energy, then you would be completely separate from those other people, which means that it would make no difference which one you were around. But the fact that someone in a bad energy state is not pleasant to be around and people would admit to that, gives credence to the fact that whether we can understand it or not, we are receptive to some form of energy.

Because even if someone isn’t saying anything, they give off a vibe.

You know, when you walk on the bus or the train, you scan where you’re going to sit, you’re picking up all kinds of information, including whether someone’s good energy or bad energy, just from tiny, tiny little manifestations of their energy state.

So this is another way that we can start to kind of bring this idea that there is good and bad and that is being demonstrated in everyday life to the fore of someone’s awareness. Remember, the goal was ultimately, how can we engage with people who maybe haven’t considered spirituality or are close to the idea of spirituality or have made their mind up, like, oh, it’s just a load of rubbish or it’s a load of nonsense. If you just come out and say, oh, well, you’ve got an aura, man. And crystals have energy and it’s not relatable and it will just turn them off. Whereas if you talk about, well, you know, would you rather be in a room with someone that’s full of love and happiness and laughter or someone that’s angry and depressed and then ask them why is that?

And see what they say. Then they’ll start to tell you how they understand energy.

So, you know, it’s just different strategies. But remember, the goal is always to be respectful. We’re not trying to force any kind of belief on anyone. We’re not trying to convince anyone of anything. And a big part of what we’re discussing is actually how can we better understand the journey we’re on ourselves?

By framing it in the mundane, in the everyday, and not just having it as something that’s very hard to. Hard to describe and hard to discuss.

So does science always try and bring it back to science? Because we’re trying to look for everyday proof. So does science recognize badness?

Well, there is this thing called conduct disorder. Conduct disorder is a disorder in children, expressed even in toddlers.

And some of the symptoms would be cruel to animals and people.

Destructive behavior, deceitful behaviour, uncontrollable.

If someone has conduct disorder when they get to 18, it is legally or certainly medically reclassified. As antisocial personality disorder, APD in people that have antisocial personal disorder. Men. So it’s not just men, but there’s one of the studies looked at men, they found that men with APD had 11% less gray matter in the prefrontal cortex. So in other words, the outside of their brain at the front was 10 or 11% less than a normal person.

And that would suggest that there’s a nature component to this. In other words, the physiology of their brain is affecting their behavior.

In a study of antisocial boys aged 7 to 11 who were seeing psychotherapists or therapists because of unruly behavior, they showed lower cortisol levels. And cortisol is a stress hormone. And again, this is, this suggests nature. In other words, a hormone imbalance is leading to unruly behavior and cortisol is what makes you feel stress.

And what it’s suggesting is that these boys didn’t feel stress as a result of bad behavior, so they didn’t care. So they wouldn’t self regulate their behavior because they never felt a consequence to doing bad things. So there was no feedback to do to not do bad things. Whereas a normal good person would be worried that they would upset someone or that they would cause hurt or injury or harm to others and they would stress over it.

So the lack of stress allowed unruly behavior to propagate in these boys.

But then there’s another study that was done that said children who play violent video games are more likely to behave violently. And that’s suggesting nurture. In other words, the environment nurtures the bad behavior we’ve missed. Now this is all fascinating, but it misses the point. The question was, does science recognize badness? And the truth is, yes, the very first thing on the screen there, conduct disorder is a scientific label for a recognized behavior pattern demonstrating bad antisocial behavior. So if science defines badness as a behavioral problem, then science also validates the existence of badness.

If there was no recognition of good and bad in the medical profession, for example, then there wouldn’t be a term to define the bad behavior.

So this is just a small evidence that science recognizes badness of behavior and therefore badness. That was the point, but I thought it was also just quite interesting.

And so I’ve made this point, there is good and bad, but I’ve faded out one of the o’s in good because that ultimately suggests there is God and bad. Okay, so you’ve heard me say before that the root word of goodness means godliness or godlike in other words, to be demonstrating those qualities that are attributed to God. So compassion, kindness, forgiveness, etc. Loving.

And again, right at the start I said look, we’re going to avoid a real, we’re going to avoid religion. So I’m not talking about God as religion. I’m talking about the highest order philosophical, if you like, concept of God. So in other words, does science recognize proof of God?

Because if you, what’s quite interesting is if, if you do a search or you start looking into the question of is there such a thing as bad? Or sometimes it’s framed, is there such a thing as evil? You will invariably come across morals, ethics, culture and social conditioning as the kind of big topics. And then the discussion will evolve towards well, where do morals, morals come from?

Because if there isn’t some kind of universal arbiter of morals, then they’re just made up on a cultural or social or genetic or you know, environmental level. So the argument is that there has to be something greater. And so invariably the idea of a, a God or something that is absolute arises when navigating the moral discussion. So I’m not trying to engage at a religious level, but I’m simply stating that this, this is a natural direction to go in. And so does science recognize the proof of God. So this is where it gets very, very interesting if we look up the word proof.

So evidence that compels acceptance by the mind of a truth.

Let me rephrase that. So evidence that compels acceptance by the mind of a truth or a fact. And that’s a Merriam Webster definition. And I’ve got my very, very old copy of the. Where is it? There. The Oxford Mini Dictionary, which I think was 1981, this one was published.

Wow, it’s really small. Yeah, 1981. I don’t know if we can see that there.

But anyway, so I’ve had this years and I quite like a dictionary. I used to, I used to do this thing where whenever I looked up a word I’d mark it.

But as you get older you forget what you’ve looked at already so you end up coming back to it.

But here is what it says for proof in the Oxford English mini dictionary of 1981. So proof, evidence that something is true or valid or exists and then it goes on to the standard of a strength of a distilled alcoholic liquor.

So the first one is the one we’re interested in, evidence that’s something is true or valid or exists.

So it’s evidence it’s not absolute. That’s all the word proof means, which is quite interesting. It’s going to be even more interesting when I look at the next slide. But for now we are asking the question, does science recognize proof of God? So in other words, the key word is evidence. Is there evidence?

And so that’s Sheldon from Big Bang theory.

And if you talk about evidence of God from a scientific point of view, then we’re not talking about Sheldon. We are in fact talking about the other Big Bang, which is the kind of mainstream how did creation begin theory. So we can do away with Sheldon there. But it’s just funny because if you search for the Big Bang theory, you end up with lots of pictures of Sheldon Cooper. But what I’m referring to is this picture down here, which is a picture, I think this is an NASA one.

LB yes, supported. Well, basically the Department of Education picture this one. So the Department of Education is promoting this and this is looking at, on the left hand side you’ve got the moment of the Big Bang and there’s some timings down there. I’m not going to worry too much. But they can’t go back to the actual moment of the Big Bang. Their hypothesis starts a little while after and you end up with the present day, which is this disk here. So in the beginning there’s not much and they basically protons and then heavy ions and then you start to form atoms and cosmic microwave background radiation becomes visible as it cools down and then structures start to form which they hypothesize originate from micro perturbations in the uniformness of the original substrate of the cosmos. That was the last paper that Hawkins was working on.

And anyway, so this is the model Big Bang theory and this is actually quite an interesting one to look at. So if we kind of ask ourselves, what’s the proof? So one of the big pieces of evidence for God is actually the existence of the universe and let me explain why.

So the universe, I. E. Time, space, matter and energy came from nothing in an instant, which is known as the Big Bang. And they came together. So they’re a continuum. So there wasn’t time or there wasn’t space and then time and then matter and then energy. The totality of all time, space, matter and energy came into existence in an instant together.

You can’t separate them out. In other words, you can’t have time and space and. But not matter and energy. They all happened instantaneously and they came from nothing. That’s important. So the hypothesis, the scientific hypothesis is that there was nothing before and then you have a Big Bang moment and there wasn’t time, so there wasn’t really a moment. But after the Big Bang, then you had the continuum of time, space, matter and energy and an expansion and other things.

Okay, so the existence of the universe is evidence itself for God. And I will go into that, by the way. This is just all hypothesis, maybe a bit of philosophy, but this is what people have at their fingertips. And so it’s useful to be able to look into these things, discuss them and explore them and see how it also ties in with our own experiences. Because if, like me, you’ve tripped the light fantastic in meditation and gone beyond the kind of the realms of the everyday material world, then you maybe have a different perspective on space, time, energy and matter. You know, so how does this relate to what you may or may not have experienced thus far in your own journey? Worthwhile.

So the question is, what caused the Big Bang?

Well, the evidence is that whatever caused the Big Bang must be greater than the sum of the Big Bang because it had to be greater.

Something lesser couldn’t itself have created something greater. It had to be greater or equal to all of the space, time, matter and energy that is the result of the Big Bang. So whatever caused the Big Bang must be greater than the sum of the Big Bang Bang. That’s an implied truth.

Okay, so one of the other things is that whatever caused the Big Bang must have been there before the Big Bang, because if it’s the causative agent, then it must have pre existed. But there was no space, there was no time, there was no matter and there was no energy.

So therefore whatever it was was eternal because it was before time, limitless because it was before space, formless because it was before matter, and still because it was before energy. And if we talk about something that is eternal, limitless, formless and still, that is how people define God.

I’m not talking about man with trident, sitting on a cloud, big beard or anything like that. I’m not talking about some Hindu deity with a snake around their neck and riding on a spaceship or anything like, or, you know, the absolute. Remember I said taking it to the absolute. The absolute definition of God is before time, beyond limits, no, no edges, so formless and absolutely still no movement. Okay? So the existence of the universe and the Big Bang theory are evidence of God because something had to cause the Big Bang and therefore must be greater. And the greatest thing greater than creation itself could only be God. If it was lesser than creation, it would be a part of creation or A. An other creation, but it had to be something greater than the sum of the Big Bang, and it had to be there before the Big Bang. So these two points actually point to.

Towards the existence of God.

Okay, and so the second kind of classic evidence from science is evidence too, which I’m about to share with you. But I wanted to share this quote from Forbes and links will be provided.

When it comes to science, proving anything is an impossibility.

Let me just jump over to that article, see if I can find it. So this is an article in Forbes. Scientific proof is a myth.

And I’ll just read you this bit because it puts it quite nicely. So you’ve heard of our greatest scientific theories. The theory of evolution, the Big Bang theory, the theory of gravity.

You’ve also heard of the concept of a proof and the claims that certain pieces of evidence prove the validities of these theories. Fossils, genetic inheritance and DNA prove the theory of evolution. The Hubble expansion of the universe, the evolution of stars, galaxies and heavy elements and the existence of the cosmic microwave background prove the Big Bang theory. And falling objects, GPS clocks, planetary motion and the deflection of starlight prove the theory of gravity.

Except that’s a complete lie.

While they prove very strong evidence for those theories, they aren’t proof. In fact, when it comes to science, proving anything is an impossibility.

And yet I ask you, does science not put itself there as the bastion of fact?

Are we not told that, for example, we are following the science? Therefore, you must give up your rights or you must inject this nonsense into your body.

Science is in the mainstream fact, but it’s not.

I want to reread it and I want to highlight again certain words you’ve heard. Our greatest scientific theories.

What does a theory mean? It means we don’t know. It’s just a theory.

The theory of evolution, the Big Bang theory, the theory of gravity. Did you know that gravity has yet to be proven scientifically? It’s a theory.

You know, I could go on about other theories. I mean, for example, they talk about fossils. Genetic inheritance and DNA prove the theory of evolution. I just want to point something out. And, you know, I’m a biologist, done my time, done my genetics, done my studying. There, see if you can see it there. Point in the right direction. There we go. That says University of Manchester Bachelor of Science Mark Patrick Ceretti. And the one below, University of Manchester Master of Science Science Mark Patrick Zaretti. In the Faculty of Science and Engineering. In the Faculty of Science and Engineering, Stopford Building School of biological sciences course C1, C100.

Okay. So as a lay scientist, one of the things that intrigues me is the theory of evolution is that from single celled organisms, they gather together in the primordial o and that they formed more and more complex organisms until eventually you had more and more complex organisms and then you eventually have mammals and things like that.

And that evolution is an ongoing process.

And we know that there are bacteria and we know that there are eukaryotes, single celled organisms still.

So if there are still single celled organisms and there is still evolution, then why are there no double celled organisms or triple celled organisms, or low order multi celled organisms? There is a big jump from single cell to complex life and there is nothing in between, which kind of says, well, how did that happen in the past? And yet there’s no evidence for it now. If evolution is a continuous process and the raw substrate of single celled organisms is still present, surely we would be seeing every single possibility in the range of evolution at all times if it is a constant process because the environment is constantly changing. So that’s one thing that always struck me about the theory of evolution that doesn’t hold up to rigor. And also there was, it’s not the only theory. So there’s Lamarckism and other things. But I digress.

Let’s get back to what I’m trying to explain.

Maybe not greatly, but what I’m trying to explain is that we should understand the truth. The truth is that science cannot prove anything and that that article goes on and it’s not, you know, this article is just one of many, but it goes on to talk about a number of things. And one of the things it explains here in order to come up with a model capable of predicting what will happen under a variety of conditions, that is a scientific theory. We need to understand a few things.

What we’re capable of measuring and to what precision.

What’s been measured thus far under specific initial conditions, what laws hold for these phenomena, that is, what observed relationships exist between specific quantities and what the limits are for these, for the things we presently know.

Science cannot prove anything because what we presently know is limited. There will always be new discoveries that may change the parameters. So there is no such thing as an absolute in science. There is only a theory that has yet to be broken or evolved. Okay. And then right at the first, what we’re capable of measuring. So I, I started this process by saying spirituality can’t be measured. Therefore, the burden of proof seems to Be on those who are spiritual.

Let’s look at the the flip side. Science is woefully inadequate at measuring anything beyond what can be tangibly measured with tangible instruments.

Whether, even if it’s like, you know, Project Ice Cube measuring photons or whatever, I’ll put a link to that. But you know, very sensitive, but you still basically got bits of metal and sensors buried in the ground or buried in the ice. It’s still mechanical things measuring particles that are fundamentally of material matter.

So science is actually very limited in what it can be measure and therefore what it can prove is very limited.

And it goes on. It’s an interesting article that basically says we need to understand that science can’t prove stuff.

As you can see, there’s a lot to this article.

And really the next time a scientist says that something is a fact, they are lying.

All it means is that their theory so far holds up onto the limited set of constraints that they’re able to measure.

That’s what it means.

So next time someone’s beating you overhead with science, you have a right based on truth to push back. And I’ll put links to all of these things.

But the second piece of evidence that science offers up for the proof of God is the fine tuning of the universe.

Let me explain.

The strength of gravity, the cosmological constant, that is the rate of expansion of the cosmos, the strong nuclear force, in other words, the forces in the middle of an atom that hold the nucleus together, and the size and distance of the Earth to the sun, which is one.

What’s it called, astronomical unit, I believe. And that’s obviously assuming a heliocentric model.

So why does this provide evidence for the existence of God?

If gravity was a tiny bit weaker, the cosmos, the universe would have just carried on expanding rapidly and stars, planets, asteroids, whatever, theoretically would not have formed.

And if gravity was a tiny bit stronger, even just a tiny bit stronger, everything would have collapsed back on in on itself into a single mass.

So gravity just seems to be at the exact right level. Not. It’s like the Goldilocks, though, not too strong and not too weak.

Remember what I said? Gravity hasn’t even been proven to actually exist. It’s a theory, but anyway, we observe something. But the explanation of gravity is unproven. It’s a hypothesis, a theory. The cosmological constant, the rate of expansion, again, too fast, everything just goes away. And there’s not enough time for things to cool down and form planets, etc.

Strong nuclear forces, too weak and atoms fall apart. Too strong and you wouldn’t have hydrogen because you can read articles. But basically there has to be the right level of nuclear forces so that some electrons can escape things can form more complex molecules, etc. It’s just right. It’s just finely tuned, right? And the size and the distance of the Earth to the sun, a bit closer we fall into its orbit or we just get cooked too far away and it’s not warm enough. Ice is frozen, it never melts, and there’s no life. So Earth just happens to be at the very, very, very precise distance necessary for life. Okay?

It’s fine tuning of the universe suggests that someone did the tuning or some intelligence made the choices about the parameters. There was a creator, and this is called the one analogy or metaphor for this is the watchmaker.

Imagine very primitive people coming across a very complex pocket watch with all the cogs and the dials and everything, and they’ve never seen anything mechanical before. They could only assume that someone made it because it’s so exquisite, it’s so precise, everything fits together perfectly that it suggests that someone with intelligence who knew that what they were doing crafted this object. And that’s what the universe is. It’s like finding a pocket watch and going, everything just works so precisely with within such fine tolerances for success that it had to have been designed. There has to be a designer. Therefore, the designer is God. Okay, so these are some statements that famous people have made. And you know, look, when we’re talking about this, well, we can guess who these people might be. So a common sense interpretation of the facts suggests that a super intellect has monkeyed with physics as well as chemistry and biology, and that there are no blind forces worth speaking about in nature. In other words, they’re answering this. The fine tuning of the universe suggests a super intellect.

The next quote is the remarkable fact is that the values of these numbers seem to have been very finely adjusted to make possible the development of life. For example, the distance of the Earth from the sun or the, you know, the cosmological constant.

The entire universe is balanced on a knife edge and would be total chaos if any of the natural constants were off even slightly. So these are all suggesting that it’s by intelligent design, it’s not random, okay? Because there’s too many parameters that if they were even the slightest bit out would cause the complete collapse of the cosmos or rapidly approaching entropy and just going cold.

And so, you know, you logically, we’re thinking, well, these people must be Christians or, you know, theologians or something. So let’s see who said these things.

Fred Hoyle.

So who’s Fred Hoyle? Let’s have a look at Fred Hoyle then. Where are you Fred?

There you are. So Fred Hoyle, Sir Fred Hoyle 1915-2001 was an English astronomer who formulated the theory of stellar nuclear synthesis and was one of the authors of the influential B2FH paper. He also heard basically he is the one of the eminent scientists of his time.

He got knighthood, you can look up his career but he, he basically worked for the admiralty radar research.

He’s also an author and stuff but basically he’s a really well famous. He’s won all of these awards I’m highlighting down here. You can look it up, I’ll send links. He’s a scientist, he’s an atheist. He doesn’t believe in God but he drew the conclusion that the the interpretation of the facts suggest a super intellect. That’s God.

The next one, Stephen Hawking. The remarkable fact is that the values of these numbers seem to have been very finely adjusted to make possible the development of life. In other words, he’s saying the fact that it had seems to have been very finely adjusted. In other words, something adjusted it to make possible life alluding to the concept or notion of God. And we all know who Stephen Hawking is. I don’t need to explain that he’s world famous scientist again, atheist.

The entire universe is balanced on a knife edge and would be total chaos if any of the natural constants were off even slightly. PCW Davies. So who’s PCW Davies? Paul Davies is an English physicist, writer and broadcaster, a professor in Arizona State University and director of beyond the center for Fundamental Concepts and Sciences affiliated with the Institute for Quantum Studies in Chapman University. And he previously held academic appointments in the University of Cambridge University College London University, Newcastle on Tyne, University of Adelaide etc. He’s the chair, he’s on the chair of SETI and the post Detection Science and Technology Task Group of the International Academy of Astronautics and he’s on meti which is the messaging Extraterrestrial Intelligence. In other words, absolute scientist. Loads of awards again he’s won the Faraday Prize and other awards and he’s a physicist. So these aren’t Christians or theologians or people that are pro God. These are the world’s leading scientists who are doing everything they can to prove perhaps that God doesn’t exist and that science answers everything.

And basically yet the evidence, remember what proof is? Proof is evidence for the existence of something science can’t prove anything. But the evidence is that in their words, there is a super intellect that has finally adjusted the values of creation such that it evolves, avoids chaos and supports life.

So that’s the mainstream take on science, providing its own proof of the existence of some creator.

And yeah, that. That is fascinating stuff. Well, I think it’s fascinating. I knew bits and pieces of that before I started this exercise. But that’s the whole point. This is an exercise to say, okay, in layman’s terms, using everyday information that’s everyone’s fingerprint fingertips. What evidence do we have for the existence of something that we could consider to be God or the source or a creator?

Now, time flies. So let’s crack on. I wanted to look at this. So this is a kind of redacted bit so of it, because it was a private conversation, but this was a conversation with someone who I support spiritually. And they were saying that one of their children has just, just turned 18. And I said, well, wish them happy birthday. They’re now an adult.

And the person replied, with them being an adult now, what do I need to do on to know or do differently in respect to this child that is now an adult?

And this person is obviously asking that to me from a spiritual perspective because I’ve spoken with them and as I’ve done with you in the live show, about spiritual aspects of what it means to be a parent.

And then they said.

So I asked them, is it, or would you be happy for this to be asked as a question in the live show? And as you can see down there, they said, yes, please. I agree with it being a question for the live show.

So this is what I wanted to kind of convey. And let’s just set the scene so you’re a parent and you’ve got a child, male, female, that has just turned 18.

Does that mean anything from a spiritual perspective? And does that change anything from a parenting perspective? Okay, so at 18, both men and women become independent spiritual beings. So prior to that, there was some kind of dependency on the mother, to some extent the father, but primarily the mother’s aura as the child was developing even up to the age of 18.

But at 18, and it’s not a gradual thing, it’s not over a period of time, and it’s not because there’s some kind of just is the way it is. It’s not a legal thing, it’s not a law thing. But it’s funny how 18 seems to have become a significant age in law, but at 18, it’s like a switch. And they become activated, independent spiritual beings at that age. Okay.

And like each of us.

So me, I’m. I’m more than 18, but I can still be inspired, guided and helped by those that can. And it’s the same. So they don’t at 18, cease to be able to be helped by you, their parent, rather.

Well, we’ll get on to what the rather is. So in other words, you can still inspire them, guide them and help them. But you need to understand or you don’t need to do anything. But it’d be wise to understand that at this point now they are actually an independent spiritual being completely separate from you. They came through you, not from you.

They can still receive your love, you know, it’s not that they’re cut off. The bond between you and them hasn’t disappeared. Okay, that’s really nice to know.

But they are now fully present in the lower self to higher self relationship which we’re covering in the book that we’re reading and we’ll be getting on to shortly.

But what this means is their higher self will now give them guidance properly. In other words, that relationships now activated, which means that if they do wrong, there will be feedback. They’ll stub their toe, they’ll bang their head or whatever the feedback is. And again, in the book that we’re reading from, we’re covering this.

And if they keep doing wrong, there may be dis. Ease.

So up to 18. If there is illness or disease in a child, it’s normally because of interference or environment. It’s not ever likely to be direct feedback.

Because the spiritual, now, the spiritual relationship, I’ve underlined the words fully. It does start prior to that, and I’ve talked about this in previous episodes, that from about the age of 11, 12, the ego starts to form.

But it’s like there may be some feedback prior to that. But at the age of 18, it’s like, right, everything’s switched on now.

So there will be feedback, there will be course correction if you’re going in the wrong direction and there will be consequences.

And that’s really useful to remember that picture I showed you earlier where choices are either good or bad. This is what we’re talking about. The consequences are if you keep making bad choices or bad thoughts, then there will be consequences. And if you make good ones, you will raise in your spirituality. And this relationship between lower and higher self is the spiritual relationship.

The key word to take home for the parent is the responsibility is now the child. It’s not the child actually they’re not a child anymore. They are now responsible. You are not.

And the parent. This may be hard to. To hear.

The parental obligation is ended.

Okay.

Doesn’t mean you stop being a parent. Doesn’t mean they stop being your child.

When you’re in your 70s, 80s, and they’re in their 40s, 50s, 60s, whatever, they’ll still be your child. But you need to understand that from a spiritual point of view, your parental obligation is ended.

They literally have flown the nest spiritually and they are now responsible for their choices. You can still guide them, you can still love them, you can still pray for them, you can still send healing and all the good things, but they are now an independent spiritual being.

So hopefully if you, if you’re kind of switched on and you care about your kids, then you’re taking the opportunity to prepare them for this moment before they reach it.

At this point, it might be a bit late. Well, it’s never too late.

But it would have been, it would have been if the opportunity had come up to explain to them simple things like, you know, bad thoughts, wrong direction, good thoughts, good direction, that your thoughts have an effect on you. In other words, all the stuff that we’ve been discussing this week and last week, if they had these concepts, then they would be better prepared for this moment when they pass 18. Okay. Because it’s a bit like literally, you’ve jumped out the nest. Now learn to fly. Okay, so wonderful time.

Most of us listening to this show are probably 18 or more, and therefore we’ve all been through it. And you look back at when you’re 18 and you thought you knew everything and you thought you were growing up and now you cringe and you think you. We didn’t really know anything, but we’re not here to judge. Everyone has to go through that journey. Can we guide them with compassion and wisdom?

You know, and no one really sat me down and explained any of this spiritual stuff.

So what a gift it is. If you’re in a position to do this for your children, even if they’re grown up, what a gift. And if they are 18 or older and they’re interested, send, you know, send them a link, show, send them to the website.

You know, there’s. That’s what this is here for, to help spiritually guide adults. And that’s what they are. They’re an adult now.

Okay, so it’s time for the book reading. I’ll see you over there.

Okay. So we’re reading from the spiritual life.

[01:03:26] Explained the wake up call this book.

[01:03:28] Which I’m sure you’re all familiar with by now. And we were on page and we still are on page 31.

And I’ll just go back one paragraph.

[01:03:37] Just to give us context of where we were at.

[01:03:40] So.

But the important thing is thing here.

[01:03:43] Is to recall how I explained earlier that sometimes it is not how people act or appear that matters, rather what is in their hearts. Well, this collective are doing a wonderful job of acting and appearing good and benevolent, partly by targeting and working through genuinely good people down here on the physical plane. But they have neither light nor love in their hearts and their real goal is quite sinister, even if their message appears positive.

So we were talking about Abraham.

[01:04:12] I’m just looking over there.

Yep, Mike’s working fine and the Law.

[01:04:17] Of Manifesting and the work of the secret, etc.

[01:04:22] So we carry on this week.

[01:04:25] So let me provide context what I am saying, as I’m sure this may be challenging for a lot of people to hear, especially if in good faith they have invested their time, energy, money and beliefs into the Law of Attraction movement.

And I put my hand up, I did. I bought into it for a while and then I kind of listened to my inner guidance.

[01:04:47] And here we are.

[01:04:49] Higher perspective.

God is limitless. Beyond form, beyond time, eternal, the absolute Creator and the one who guides every human via the human spirit. There is nothing greater than God. And I just interject literally those are the words that were in that slide.

[01:05:08] Earlier when we were talking about how.

[01:05:11] The Big Bang and creation literally proves the existence of God because something had.

[01:05:16] To be there before the Big Bang.

[01:05:18] And I use words very similar, limitless, beyond form, beyond time, eternal, the absolute Creator.

So therefore God, who is omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent and all knowing, knows what is best for you or what you need. And because God loves you unconditionally, is always seeking to guide you for your greater good or for your greatest good.

You are always guided by God to what you need. But free will means you do not always follow, as in you don’t always follow the guidance.

Life is about you learning through experience and to eventually awaken spiritually and to seek God, the highest purpose of human life, growing in goodness and becoming closer to God over many lifetimes as well as in this lifetime. And I just pause again. So that arrow and pointing up to good and down to bad, related to the choices and the thoughts that we make.

Literally what I say here is growing in goodness. And we do that literally at the thought level. So when we make good Thoughts we’re growing in goodness towards God, becoming closer to God. As I’ve written here, the law of attraction and other manifesting ideologies, however, mean we decide what we want to manifest or attract in life rather than being guided by God. And so we must contemplate where does knowing what we should desire come from?

The desire to manifest it does not come from God nor God’s guidance. It does not come from our higher self, it either. Rather, it comes from our lower self and is rooted in self criticism and self judgment of the life we are living.

When our lower self desires change, it is us saying to God and our higher selves, I have judged my life and I do not like the way it is. I want a partner, I want wealth. I want a better career. I, I, I.

Desiring to manifest in life means three things.

Firstly, that there is a lack of acceptance, tolerance or gratitude of the present.

Secondly, that there is no trust in God, and thirdly, no personal responsibility or appreciation of the fact that where you are now is because of the choices you have already made.

When you proactively attempt to manifest in your life, you are basically saying God has got it wrong and so I need to fix my creation.

For example, if you do not have a partner, perhaps it is because you are not meant to at this time.

Or if you are meant to, then you have been ignoring your higher self who is trying to guide you to the right person, who would help you to grow spiritually and whom God has already lined up for you to meet if only you would follow their guidance. You are already being given ego versus God.

But the law of attraction.

[01:08:22] And the.

[01:08:23] Manifestation ideology means that you decide what is best for you and when it should happen based on your lower self’s desires. You then try and manifest it through emotional and energetic congruency to your desire. The there is no space in that mindset for God’s guidance because you cannot be saying I know what I need and at the same time saying I want to be receptive to God and my higher self’s guidance.

The law of attraction and active manifesting is all about desire and the power of self, which ultimately starts and ends with ego. It is my will be done rather than God’s will be done.

The claims of Abraham to be some sort of divine energy, the source or infinite, means that they appeal to good people who are spiritually seeking. This is deliberate because Abraham’s goal, though they would not admit it to people on the third dimension, is to distract genuine spiritual people away from God by taking their spiritual curiosity and redirecting that enthusiasm into seeking personal power, material or emotional gain.

Abraham’s teachings direct your upwards spiritual seeking attention back down into the manifest world of desire around you. After all, the more you invest your time and willpower to shape your own life through the law of Attraction, satisfying your desires, then the more attracted and emotionally tethered you are going to be to your life and its trappings.

The law of Attraction manifesting, or the secret, whatever you call it, is actually the antithesis of spirituality, since real spirituality raises you above worldly desires, relinquishing the egocentric illusion of being in control to real higher guidance, which ultimately comes from God.

Abraham are not spiritual. They are materialistic, hedonistic and dark. And that is their real message. But like all who deceive good people, they use elements of truth along with good words and deeds to hide their deception and real intent. The law of attraction is fundamentally real and can be explained simply as you manifest what you give your attention to.

However, in the case of Abraham’s teachings, the manifestation works partly through the power of your own intention, but also because the Abraham collective actively work on higher dimensions to bring about what you desire on your behalf so that you buy even more into their agenda.

Since God has given you free will, then God remains neutral and allows you to go in that dark direction and imprison yourself within the manifestation of your own worldly desires. Abraham know this all too well and so they encourage humans to focus on what their lower selves wants instead of being humble and receptive to what God wants. It replaces trust in what is truly divine God with trust in lower self, or worse, trust in Abraham. And so you are encouraged to become your own creator and thus turn your back on the one real creator, God. Like so much deception, it is sold on positive gains and half truths. I do not say this lightly and I say this as someone who has encountered the collective Abraham and their superiors and their superiors many times on higher dimensions, including when they have gone by other names.

All that glitters is certainly not gold.

[01:11:51] I’m going to stop at that point.

[01:11:53] There’s more obviously. And we’re on page 37 now.

As ever, it’s fascinating how it overlapped.

[01:12:00] With what we were discussing earlier. But now I’m going to meet you back over there.

Okay, so we were. That was just reading from the book and that book really does go a lot into the whole higher self relationship side of things that we’ve just been discussing for 18 year olds. But sorry, press the right button and let’s Go back here.

So now we’re just winding up. We’re going to look at the Q and A from the chat, and I saw that there was one or two things coming in. So let’s have a look at what’s been coming in in the chat there. So Marigold0 said, what a beautiful and inspirational way to acknowledge Jesus. Thank you for sharing. And I believe that was in relation to the colorful drawing. And I’ll put a copy of the artwork up on the podcast so that we can see it there as well. And then there is a question here from Rachel B. Jones that’s says, are there precise mathematical spirals in many places? Is this fine tuning?

There are perhaps there are precise mathematical spirals in many places is fine tuning.

So I’m not.

The short answer is probably maybe mathematics is a different thing because you can talk about mathematical proof, and in maths you can prove an assertion like one side of the formula equals another side equals the other sides of the formula. So when, when we’re talking about mathematical proofs, the fine tuning is more about the laws of nature, such that when, how can I put it, before these things were ever codified by a person, they existed. They existed as a result of existence of creation. In other words, someone didn’t invent the laws of nature. They simply observed them and recorded them. And the laws of nature are such that, for example, gravity, the theory of gravity is a certain amount of force. The, the nuclear bond energy is a certain amount of energy. The rate of expansion of the universe is what it is. It is what it is, is what it is. And it’s that fine tuning of what it is that people marvel at, because if things were just a tiny, tiny, tiny bit different, creation would have either collapsed or disappeared. So it’s the preciseness of the.

And again, we’re not talking, if we were talking about one parameter, you know, then, and that was the only parameter in the entirety of the laws of nature, then it’s not a big deal. But if we’re talking about every single thing needs to line up precisely for life to exist and the universe to exist, it’s not one parameter, it’s a multitude.

So with things like the spirals, I think you might be referring to either something like fractal spirals or the Fibonacci spirals, or the golden main, the golden ratio, where you see these kind of numbers keep coming up in nature. And you see it in things like the nautilus shell or the way that a plant rolls its leaves and stuff like this.

Then, yeah, I think we touched on that, actually. How life is. There is a fractal side to things. And again, you could say, well, yeah, is that another piece of evidence? If the same mathematical numbers keep being represented in nature, is that another sign of some kind of overarching intelligence? Because how could a nautilus shell and a fern leaf come up with exactly the same number? Is it just purely random organization or the best structure? Or is it actually some kind of design?

You know, what is it the proof is? Is there enough evidence?

Nothing. You know, science can’t prove anything, and in some respects, neither can we. And the reason is, I’ll end on this is what is a spiritual journey. It’s not what you can put down on paper. It’s not what I can convey in a book. I do my best. I do my best with the live show. I do my best with the podcasts and all the work that I do to try and convey it.

You could watch every podcast, you could watch every show, listen to every podcast, read every book.

You could discuss it.

We could talk about it for hours, grab a coffee.

It doesn’t make you more spiritual. Spirituality is what happens when you start putting into practice these things.

And that’s why the example I gave earlier about thought and some thoughts take you higher and closer to goodness and God, and some thoughts drop you down and move you in the wrong direction.

That’s probably one of the more powerful take homes, because that’s something you can act on, that you can now become cognizant of and say, okay, I’m going to pay attention to my thoughts, and I’m going to ask myself, especially when making important decisions, is this a good thing or is this a bad thing? So spirituality is ultimately not about what you can prove to others.

It’s what you experience and know for your. For yourself from your own experience. And that’s why when, for example, we talk about God, when you have a fundamental level, got a profound connection with that, which we’re alluding to as God or the Source, no one can take that away from you. It’s not a belief, it’s not an emotion, it’s not an idea, it’s not even an experience.

It’s not a transient thing. It’s a way of being.

That isn’t a philosophy. It’s not from the head, it’s from the heart. I think say that almost every week now. That’s where spirituality is down here. This stuff out here engages with the head through your ears, through your eyes.

Think about it, process it. But then take it down into your heart.

That’s what makes.

That’s when you start to become spiritual. And I can, let me, let me share a little insight.

It’s easy.

Stop overthinking it, take a deep breath and just enjoy the unfolding. And on that note, I’ll say thank you for all your questions. Thanks for all the comments.

And yeah, if there’s someone who’s 18 and you think that they’re ready, share this with them.

In the meantime, keep making good, good choices. Now you’re really starting to understand why I say that. Keep making good choices.

God bless you, and I’ll see you next week.

Take care.

So this was the point where the closing credits happened. And most people would have just signed off at that point. But when the credits had finished, I did a. Well, I basically came back into the live show and recorded a bit of bonus information.

So that’s what I’m going to share with you now.

Good, you’re still there. Okay, look, there was something else I was actually going to share with you. And I’m guessing a lot of people have probably, you know, we’ve had the closing credits, so people have gone. But if you’re still sticking around here, then this is a bonus for you, I guess.

So we were talking about science and how science can’t really prove anything.

And there was an example I was going to share with us all, but I kind of, you know, time, time was fleeting, but I’m going to share it now. And this, this is fundamental. So one of the big things about science, you know, the heliocentric model, the Earth, supposedly sphere rotating around in a spiral fashion around a sun that’s traveling around the galaxy, that’s traveling around the universe, etcetera, is the distance from the Earth to the Sun. And this is what’s known as the astronomical unit because 1 au is the distance between the Earth and the sun. And it’s supposedly.

Let me see if I can get this right.

149,590 7 million 890 meters.

And that’s very precise, isn’t it? This is the, this is the number that you can see here. I’ll put a link to this article. But that’s not what I wanted to discuss.

Let’s just make this a bit bigger so we can see it.

So what I really wanted to discuss is, you know, science.

So this is, here’s another example. So this is the same unit, but expressed in kilometers and miles. So 92,000, almost 93,000.

Was that 93 million miles. Sorry, if I. If I’m reading that right, I forgot my glasses this week, so.

And for all you Star wars fans, then. 4.848, par 6.

So it’s a real. It’s a real word.

Okay, but what did. I want to use this as an example. So this is the history of the. The measurement of the distance from the Earth to the sun, okay?

And rather annoyingly, they kind of not expressed it as an actual measurement. They’ve done it in AU. So based on the current model of what an AU is, then how.

How accurate was the original measurement versus what they now hold to be true?

So, 98.9% inaccurate.

They originally thought that it was 0.02% or 0.02 of the current distance. So how would we interpret that? It’s not a fifth, but 1/50 of the distance or 1, 500.

But anyway, you get the idea. A lot closer.

And that went on for a long time.

And then they thought. So here they actually thought it was further away.

And this was Huygens. So that might be a name you’re familiar with. 1659.

Then they thought it was closer again, then they thought it was further away again.

Then they thought it was quite close to where we are right now. And as early back as 1941, they thought it was a bit further away. And now they’re saying that modern astronomy has asserted that it is this distance, okay?

And they’re saying that’s one, and they’re saying there’s no error. So the hubris here is they’re saying that everything that came before was wrong and that they’ve now reached the point where they absolutely know, well, let’s just count them.

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 Theories of the distance between the Earth and the sun.

So 15 times they’ve proved themselves wrong.

And this is the point about science. Can’t prove anything. It’s all a theory until they find the next bit of information or they get more accurate equipment to measure, or they find something else out, like, you know, oh, hang on a sec. It’s not as close as we thought it was because we weren’t taking into account some kind of dark antimatter gravitational field or something that we didn’t even understand.

And that’s all assuming that the heliocentric model is itself accurate. And we could go, there’s a massive rabbit hole there. But, you know, if, you know, you know. So basically, mainstream science has demonstrated over the last. I mean, it is over a block period of time, in fairness. But they have demonstrated if we go back 400 years, constantly re evaluating and changing their what they say is truth. And now they’re saying, well, we know there’s no what’s lacking is maybe the humility to say as best as we can tell at this time. But it’s no, it’s now an assertion. It’s in the international si, whatever they call it, the scale of measurements, you know, etc. So it’s just a good example of science can’t prove anything. It can only, can only put up a straw, a straw man theory that is there until it’s challenged by newer information.

I would always say trust your eyes, trust what you can measure, trust your own experience.

Okay. Because there’s a lot that doesn’t add up in science.

I mean, you know, maybe we’ll talk about that stuff in the future, but there we go. That was one of the things I wanted to share with you and I just thought I’d throw it in here at the end for those of you that haven’t gone to bed yet.

But look, really, this is the end of the show now, so I will, I will bid you well and say good night and I’ll see you next week.

You take care.

Thank you for being awesome and joining me for this episode. I’m truly grateful. As a spiritual person, I hope it’s inspiring to realize that you’re not alone and that more and more like minded people just like you are enjoying this live show. This means that you’re a part of of a growing and awakening community. And together we’re all finding the way back to God. Going deeper than just ideas and beliefs to experience firsthand real spiritual awakening. This is a journey of the heart, not the head.

So take this moment to just become a little bit stiller, more present, more neutral.

Now notice what you notice when I ask you this question.

What in this particular episode has been most useful.

Now, who in your life at this particular time would benefit the most from knowing this too?

Maybe it’s one person, or maybe it’s more than one. But because sharing is caring, it’s really nice to know that you can actually share this show with them and therefore help them this show is completely free to enjoy and benefit from. Now, speaking of free stuff, if you’d like other useful, helpful spiritual resources, then head on over to the waybackgroup.org there you’ll find all kinds of free resources, articles, ebook, books, MP3s, guided meditations, and a whole load of other stuff that’s completely free and waiting for you to discover it. So that’s all for this episode, but your journey and my journey continues.

And so I look forward to having you join me next week for more revelation and exploration into spiritual things. And together, let’s make more sense of life.

Not just us, but for our loved ones, so that we can help them, too.

So remember to subscribe and hit the notifications so that you don’t miss out.

Who knows what we’ll be discussing next week, and the next question or topic might even be yours. Perhaps there’s a reason you’ve been guided to this show.

So God bless you. And remember, real change starts when we put put into practice what we’re learning so that we go from thinking and doing to finally being.

So take what you’ve learned today and keep on being the best version of you.

God bless.