Ep.033 Demon Face Syndrome (Prosopometamorphopsia). Guest Nik on Being a Scientist & Finding Jesus. Dark Times on Earth? Joy & Danger of Being too Neutral?: Live Show Discussing Spirituality w/ Mark Zaretti & Nik

Episode transcript:

[00:00:07] Mark: Welcome to The Way Back Live show podcast, discussing spirituality with
me, your host, Mark Zaretti. Each week I answer your questions, and though I may not have all
the answers, together we’ll make more sense of life one episode at a time. What you’re about to
hear is episode 33, and it’s actually quite a special episode because it’s the first time on the live
show that we’ve ever had a guest. Now, as you could imagine, there was a bit more
technologically to producing this show. And though we did do a lot of preparation and testing
beforehand, it was only after the live show that we discovered that there was a bit of echo in the
background. I really do hope it doesn’t detract from your enjoyment of the show, but we have
since figured out what caused it. And in future episodes, that shouldn’t be a problem. But while
I’m talking to you now, I’d like to reach out to you with a personal request. It’s been over half a
year now that I’ve been doing this show, and the feedback has been wonderful and inspiring and
encouraging me to just keep going with the show. But to help more people discover it, can I ask
you one simple thing? Whatever you’re listening on, whether it’s Spotify or Apple or some other
platform, could you just leave a review, perhaps a like and a recommendation and that will help
more people to discover this show and of course, go ahead and share it with others? The best
thing to do is send them to the website, https://thewaybackgroup.org because that way they can not
only discover all of our podcasts, but all the other free resources that we offer. So thank you for
your time and let’s now dive into episode 33, which was really quite an interesting show. God
bless.

Mark: And we are live. Good evening, everyone. This is Mark from the Wayback Group. And it’s
Thursday the 24th of October. So that’s 24, 1024. And this is another discussing Spirituality Live
Show. Welcome, everyone. And I believe we’ve got a few new people joining us today as well.
Today’s also a bit special because it’s the first time we’re going to be doing an interview and,
well, not an interview. We’ve got a guest on the show. It’s not quite an interview, and I’ll be
bringing them into the show in a moment. Some of you may know from the thumbnail who it is,
but very excited. But please do bear with us because as ever, it’s a live show and because we
got someone joining us Then there’s one more layer of complexity when it comes to technology.
But this is episode 33 and if I just find the right buttons, then I can introduce the guest. And the
person joining us is a guy called Nik. So welcome, Nik.
[00:02:44] Nik: Hi, Mark. Hopefully you can hear me okay.
[00:02:46] Mark: Yeah, I believe we can.
I can hear you. So I assume that everyone else can hear you as well. And we’ve also being
joined by Rambo 365, all the way over in Massachusetts, US. So welcome Rambo 365 and
everyone who’s already in the chat. Now, as ever, we do have questions from you guys, the
people watching the show and following this live show, and that’s great.
This show is going to be a bit of a split talking with Nik, but also answering your questions. So
we’ll just see how this goes. And what I’ll do now is I’m just going to dive straight into. I think if I
bear with me because everything is new.
In fact, I’m going to move my mic so I can see things a bit better. There we go. So here’s Today’s
show, episode 33 with this guy.
And that’s a good starting point, actually. So, Nik, if you’d like to maybe give us all a bit of an
introduction, because I know some of the people might know you in the live chat, but there’s
probably more people that don’t know you. So let’s have a little bit of an introduction from
yourself there.
[00:03:56] Nik: Okay? Yeah. So thank you firstly, Mark, for inviting me on the show and
being the first person to be on the show as well, so as a live guest. So thank you for that. So I
am Nik and I’ve known Mark for quite a while, which is. It’s been a pleasure.
I’m sort of similar age to Mark and we, you know, we’ve known each other throughout life. So,
yeah, we.
My background really is, you know, I’m the typical, typical dad, three kids and a wife.
I found my way into spirituality. I work in. Well, I have my own business. I work in the. In the
world of pharmaceuticals. Used to have time to do a lot of things, Mark, as, you know, sports.
And that was one of my big things, playing a lot of sports. And yeah, I had a lot of time, I think.
[00:04:43] Mark: You still try and play a bit of cricket, don’t you?
[00:04:45] Nik: I try, but, you know, it’s interspersed with injuries and recovering from
injuries so that it comes to us all, I think. But yeah, but yeah, I mean, we can go into a bit more
where you know, what I do and where. You know how I’ve got where I am. But just to give a bit
of. A bit of background, that’s where I am. You know, married, married man, dad. Lots of. Lots of
challenges. But, yeah, it’s all good.
[00:05:05] Mark: So that’s. Yeah, it kind of nice just to know a little bit more. And obviously
family guy. It’s interesting. You said you. Obviously I knew this, but you’ve got a background in
the kind of pharmaceutical industry, I think you said there, didn’t you?
[00:05:19] Nik: Yeah, I mean, that was my passion at school. The only thing I really, really
enjoyed was science and.
[00:05:24] Mark: Yeah. And sport.
[00:05:25] Nik: So that followed through and then that followed into my career and that’s
what I’ve always been involved with.
[00:05:31] Mark: So I’m guessing, therefore, it’s fair to say that you’ve got a bit of a
scientific way of looking at things.
[00:05:38] Nik: Yes. A bit of an analytical mind, you might say.
[00:05:41] Mark: And yet here you are on a spiritual discussion live show. So that’s. That
kind of goes to show that, you know, normal people do. Do spirituality.
[00:05:51] Nik: That’s one way of putting it, yes.
[00:05:52] Mark: So we’ve got.
We’ve actually got quite a few things to cover today. And if I dive down to the actual slideshow,
these are the things that we’re going to be looking at. And hopefully some of this is not too much
of a surprise for you. Nik and I will be helping out. I’m not going to put you on the spot, but
we’re going to be looking at discussing DFS or DF syndrome, parenting and finding God, kind of
from a testimonial life experience perspective. And so that’s really, I guess, where we’re going to
be chatting about things, Nik. And then got some really great questions from people in the
audience. So is it really darkest before dawn? Can we be too neutral and become detached from
life? The positive benefits of being more spiritual. And so what I’m hoping, Nik, is, you know,
this is.
While you’re here, maybe you’ll help me look into some of these things, give your ownperspective.
I think it’s fair to say to people you’ve been kind of on the spiritual journey for a few years now,
whatever that means. And maybe we’ll kind of dive a bit deeper into what that means for you.
Down as we. As we go. But let’s see where we. Where we begin.
Well, actually we.
Before we get to the questions, then, I’ve got a few questions. You were talking. Well, we were
chatting once and I showed you. I think I Sent you a link to a video from Fox, one of the Fox
channels over in America, about. I think it’s about nine months ago, and hopefully I’ve dug up
that video so we can have a look at it now. So let’s see if I can find that specific video and see if
this jogs your memory about what we were talking about. But let’s just see what we. What we
get here.
[00:07:40] FOX26 Presenter: It’s totally normal. And then one day you see demonic features
everywhere on people only just like this. What you see behind me now, that’s a reality for a man
named Victor Scherra. He has extremely rare yet terrifying disorder called pmi. And it’s
commonly known as, or now known because people didn’t know about it at first. It’s called the
Demon Face Syndrome. People with the condition see parts of other people’s faces distorted in
shape, texture, position, or color. For Shara, that means grotesque grimace, elongated eyes,
and deeply etched scars. Also pointed ears. There are 75 known cases up.
[00:08:27] Mark: Okay, I’ll pause at that point. And Nik, I don’t know if you heard the
audio, but basically he was saying there’s 75 cases of what’s known as Demon Face Syndrome.
The actual official name of it is, or the scientific names that’s been given to it is
prosopametamorphosea. So I think demon face is probably an easier way of describing it. But I
sent you that video probably about nine months ago when I first stumbled across it, and you told
me something really interesting. So I don’t know if you can remember that particular chat. What,
do you need me to jog your memory a bit more?
[00:09:02] Nik: I can definitely remember that mark because it’s one of those things when
you were saying that talk a little bit about yourself. I didn’t want to go into too much detail about
the things and experiences I had when I was younger. But there are a couple of things that come
back to you every now and then you remember, and one of them was brought about by you
sending me that video of the demon face, or as I love it in science, where we have to give it a
scientific name, even though we’ve got no idea what it is, where it’s come from. You know, we’ve
got to give it a name. But, yeah, when. When I was probably. I struggle to say exactly, but
around 8, 9 or 10, it was around that age, probably close to 9 or 10. And I remember one day I
noticed when I was looking at people near, nearby, to my school, and I didn’t Say before I’m
down in the southeast of England, down in Kent. And it was down there and. And I looked at.
Looked at. It started off with one person and I looked at this person’s face and it was almost like
they were wearing this mask, this oval mask with their eyes set back from the mask. And it was
kind of. It wasn’t like really scary, like a horror movie, but it was. It was just more weird than
anything. And whether or not my parents remember me telling them, I remember saying to my
mum, who’d picked me up from school at the time, and I was saying, this is really strange. I can
see, you know, I’m looking at people and they look really odd.
And then it kept happening more and more. And I’d say probably over a period of about a few
months, maybe up to six months really was the maximum time. It might not even been that long.
I just kept seeing people, of course, and then I was looking for it and seeing it, though it wasn’t
like I was manifesting it or creating it in my mind. I was actually seeing it quite often, but not with
everyone.[00:10:47] Mark: I was going to say, were you seeing it with lots of people or just a few
people?
[00:10:51] Nik: Just a few people. And it was almost like remembering it now, kind of.
Some of it’s coming back to me. It was almost like I could sense that that person was going to
have that face. And then I looked closer and they did.
[00:11:02] Mark: And so there was almost. Roughly how old were you? But I think you said
it was about.
[00:11:06] Nik: I think I was. It was definitely. It was. It was primary school, so before 11,
I’d say around 9 or 10.
[00:11:11] Mark: And did it. Look how that video portrayed it?
[00:11:14] Nik: Okay, no, it was more like the thing that I can think of now. I don’t know if
anyone’s seen the Batman film, the 1991, where the lady gets her face damaged. Famous
actress, and it’s the Joker’s girlfriend, and she has like that white porcelain mask on her face. It
was a bit more like that. But the mask wasn’t quite as shiny in porcelain.
[00:11:35] Mark: Because I just want to show you and everyone at home there, I just want
to show you a video. So obviously what we looked at before was kind of a rendition.
This is actual footage. So someone was sitting in a car in a. In like a supermarket or
somewhere, waiting, and they noticed the person in the next car. Their face was a bit strange
and they managed to get. Get maybe 10 seconds of video footage. So I found this a few months
back and I kind of kept it to one side. So I’m just going to play this and see what you think. It’s
hard to make out, but you can kind of see if you look at the eyes and the.
Around the eye sockets in particular, and this is slowed down, but you can actually see the
features changing in real time. Like the.
There’s a close up and that’s. I’ll share a link to this video and the other one as well. I take it it
didn’t really look like that then.
[00:12:38] Nik: No, no, that would be frightening.
It was more of a plain sort of. There was no features in there. It was. The feeling I had was that
their actual face was set back behind this mask and their eyes were set further back behind the
mask.
[00:12:53] Mark: Because years ago I did an exercise, I was taught to do an exercise. And
people have probably heard of this. There’s two versions of it. So there’s this mirror gazing
where you just go into a neutral state and stare at your own reflection in the mirror. And your
face will start to change quite often as well. People will report, like the room starting to dissolve
around the edges. And I can talk about what that was. But there’s also a similar exercise where
you sit opposite someone and you just gaze at each other. And I was doing it with a good friend
and I literally saw the old version of him, like a time, like jumping forwards 40 years in time. So it
was still him, but it was like the old version. So I know that there’s different things going on. And
when I’ve looked into it, it’s quite interesting because the demon face thing is something specific.
The other things could present themselves. So if people didn’t know, they’d go, they could put
them all in the same bucket and say it’s all the same thing. So I wanted to kind of bring a bit of
clarity to this. And I did look into your particular case. And, you know, those of you who followed
me for a while will know that I quite often talk about. You can paint a broad brushstroke of what’s
going on, but when it comes to an individual, you have to kind of drill down to what’s happening
in their specific case. So I wanted to present a few different things that might be going on. So
with the guy who I was sitting opposite and I suddenly saw the old version of him, it was
because I dropped into a more. Much more neutral state. And I was already an advanced
meditator. I had access to. Let’s just keep things simple, higher states of awareness. And as I
became stiller in the greatest of states. Time is kind of irrelevant really. So what was happening
was I was looking at the information in his aura of how he’s going to be. So I got a snapshot of
him in the future and there was nothing malicious in that. It was actually quite nice. It’s like
saying the completeness of the person is already there across the span of time that they’re
going to be down here on this journey. So that was quite nice, the staring at yourself in a mirror
thing. And then you start to like the room starts to dissolve and go speckly or that can happen
when you’re just looking at another person is more about you dropping into a state of stillness
and becoming more aware of the non physical. And people might try and put labels on it like
you’re tuning into astral energy or etheric energy.
But certainly the more I’ve discovered over the years, I’ve dropped those labels and it’s much
more accurate. Maybe just say tuning into non physical stuff because, you know, we’re an
energy being as well as a physical being. So it’s almost like you’re auto hypnotizing yourself by
gazing at your eyes. And there is a lot more to it in terms of the eyes literally being the doorway
to the soul and the spirit. But I won’t go too much into it other than to say that when you look into
your own eyes or into someone else’s eyes, it can be quite a profound shift if you’re in a nice
place to start with. But when I looked into this demon face thing, I’m thinking, okay, look, is it just
picking up on information in the aura? Is it active imagination? Is it, you know, they’ve had too
much caffeine, you know, it could, you know, I’m open to any possibility.
What, what I got though, corroborated other things I’ve discussed, you know, and I think I’ve said
in this live show that there are.
I try and keep my words simple, but there are.
The broad brushstroke would be the forces of darkness. And then you could say, well, there are
identities or entities within that. So you could have a specific being if you like, a non physical
being that has its own agenda and thoughts and stuff that you could say is very, very dark. And
when I looked into your specific situation and we have discussed this off air, so you know, I’m
not.
You’re happy for me to share this? Yeah.
[00:16:43] Nik: Yes.
[00:16:44] Mark: Yeah, yeah. So when I looked into your specific. What I found in your
particular case was that one of These dark entities had entered into you because you’re a
naturally spiritual person. And I’ve talked about how they target good people to try and drop their
energy, drop their vibration. And because you were quite young, you were quite vulnerable. And
what was happening was those episodes where you could perceive demon face or some,
certainly something unusual in another person was when these, this demonic presence or this
dark presence within you was being dominant.
It wasn’t possessing you because if someone’s possessed it means they’ve lost all control and
that thing is now running riot. And that does happen, but that’s quite rare. What tends to happen
is it’s more of an influence. And so you, what you were seeing was it seeing things like it in other
people. And because it was the dominant awareness in you at the time, you were literally seeing
through its metaphoric eyes. So it was show you were inadvertently like, like a passenger in its
journey, watching it perceive things like it in other people who were similarly inflicted. And when I
started working on this kind of more energetic level to help, let’s just keep some things simple,
clear a lot of this stuff, or at least bring it to light, it became clear to me how prevalent this is
now. So I started looking into. This is interesting. Why now is this coming up on Fox local tv?
And why is it science, you know, is now saying, well, we’ve got 75 reported cases, but we’re
going to try and scientifically rationalize it. And then their choice of language, if I’ll send the link.
But in the article they started, the doctor started saying, well, you know, this could be a mental
health issue. In other words, if people bring this up, we will stigmatize them with mental health.
Although they were saying it in a way to say we don’t want to stigmatize them, but we’re going to
mention the two things in the same sentence. And so I dug about bit deeper and there wasn’t a
surface level over agenda, but there was. It’s like those same forces that influence people were
influencing people in a position of authority to set the groundwork up to demonize people who
are becoming aware of these things. And there’s more of it going on. This might tie into another
question someone asked later on in the show. But more and more good people are being
targeted by the forces of darkness.
And if it happened 100 years ago, someone might mention it to their next door neighbor, but now
they’ll put it on a YouTube video and so the information will get out to a much wider audience. So
they’re trying to Head that problem off at the pass by saying, oh, it’s just some kind of medical
condition. It’s probably caused by chemicals in the brain. And if you do go on about it, you risk
being labeled as mentally unwell. And so they’re trying to head off the issue that more and more
good people and bad people, because it’s not just, it’s not, you know, it’s bipartisan. It’s like they
will go into bad people to make them more bad, they will go into good people to make them less
good. So it’s not a badge of honor to go, hey, I’m seeing demon face. It means I’m good. No, it
just means that you are of interest for one reason or another. Now it’s really sad that it happened
to you as a kid.
You said it went on for about six months. Did it just clear up naturally?
[00:20:23] Nik: Yeah, just stop seeing it. Yeah.
[00:20:27] Mark: So it could be that they felt that it was time to move on to someone else or
that they’d done enough damage at that stage.
So. Ah, so thanks, Panzer 9. You’re just confirming that you, you had glitches at your end. Okay.
All right, well, hopefully it’s all sorted out there for you.
So. But yeah, the reason why I wanted to bring this up is, well, hopefully I’ve shed a bit of light
on what’s actually going on with some of the cases. I can’t rule out or account for all cases. And
as I said, if someone came to me, I’d look into their specific case if I was spiritually helping them.
But certainly these 85, I think, 75 they said in the, in the article, and that was nine months ago,
known cases, the ones of what I looked into, most of it was this kind of slight possession issue
that was in moments where the person was maybe more under the influence that they start
perceiving stuff that ordinarily they wouldn’t be able to.
So, yeah, hopefully that, that clarifies things. And really my goal here isn’t to kind of go, you
know, Halloween’s coming up. Let’s, let’s try and scare people. Far from it. It’s more that by
talking about these things in a normal, practical, everyday sort of way, then it, it drops the
barriers to say, well, actually maybe you’re not mentally unwell. Maybe there’s just energetic or
higher dimensional interference and we should talk honestly about that. And these things have
been talked about for thousands of years in other ways where, you know, things like possession
or demonic possession or influence or people. I remember a Poor lady. Years ago she. She was
on an NLP course and she was talking about the voices in her head. And I didn’t know what. I
knew what I know now back then, but it was clear, very clear now, that she was being tormented
by something that wasn’t her, communicating with her, probably to torment her, because
probably she was just a good person. And if she’d been watching this, then maybe she’d go, ah,
right now I have an idea what’s going on. First of all, I’m not going mad. Secondly, maybe I can
get help, you know, but certainly if you went to the doctor and presented that they’re just going to
medicate you into unconsciousness.
And a lot of what people label as schizophrenia is actually multiple consciousnesses within one
person to deliberately break them or damage them. So I think it is. Someone has to speak up on
this matter. And if it’s just left to the medical professionals, they’ll just find an excuse to medicate
you and probably make a bit of money in the proceeds. But does that tally? I mean, what’s your
thoughts on it, Nik?
[00:23:15] Nik: Well, just picking up on that. There were a couple of things. So when I
was a little bit older, there was a slightly different scenario where I used to camp in the back
garden with a friend of similar age. And in the, in the twilight, if you looked at each other’s faces,
it all went a bit distorted. Now, from a biological point of view, I think that’s more that you. The
cones and rods, as opposed to the cones, don’t allow you to see as well. So I can. So at least I
can say, well, that wasn’t what was occurring with me. So it was a, you know, it was a real thing I
was seeing.
[00:23:45] Mark: Depends who the friend was.
[00:23:46] Nik: Well, that’s true, yeah, we can look at that another day. But, but the other
thing is obviously, and it’s probably, maybe not the right time to go into it, but like the, the person
you showed in the car, it’d be interesting to know whether they are actually a demon per se. We
don’t have to do it now, but it was whether they were a demon per se or whether they were just.
They were demonically possessed, because you were talking about the person seeing it is kind
of demonically possessed, if you want to call it that. And that’s letting them see others. But are
they actually seeing another person like them or they see a demon?
[00:24:19] Mark: Yeah, as I said.
[00:24:20] Nik: Well, maybe I missed what you’d said.
[00:24:22] Mark: But yeah, yeah, well, yeah, it’s good. Worth. Worth. Clarifying so if you
see it in another person, then it’s because there’s something in you. Normally it means there’s
something in you.
In fairness, if you’re particularly psychic, you might pick up on it. But for the average person, like
the, in the first video it was just a guy who was a trucker who had no idea what was going on.
And he started, you know, overnight started happening. And what I looked into for him was it
was the day before, basically he’d picked up something demonic on one of his travels when he
went into a particular place that was quite dark in energy and this thing came home with him and
decided to stay in him. And then he started seeing things. And as I said, if you see, if you see it
in another person, what you’re seeing is their possession or the entity in them. It’s almost like
they’re high fiving each other. But what’s interesting as well in this video that you can just see in
this window here, it shows that it can be detected by cameras. And quite often there are certain
things that are easier for cameras to pick up than the human eye, partly because of we might
miss stuff because we’re or actually only focused on a small bit of information. But also our eyes
aren’t as broad spectrum as a lot of like digital SLR or you know, forgotten the name. Now the
sensors in cameras actually have a slightly wider spectrum of sensitivity. So.
Yeah, and I’m just going to go back. Go on, Sorry, I was going to.
[00:25:51] Nik: Say the only other part was that just to kind of corroborate this, there was
a, there was a video that went quite viral of a lady on an airplane, you may well have seen it,
who basically got herself off the plane because she had seen it up close.
And people call, calling her mad, obviously, as opposed to she may well have actually seen
something.
[00:26:10] Mark: Such a shame she didn’t get it on camera, what she actually saw.
[00:26:12] Nik: Yeah, yeah.
[00:26:13] Mark: And there was a whole cover up that happened afterwards. I remember
someone came on national TV or was claiming to be her, but then people did face analysis and
said, no, it’s not her.
And you know, like as if the establishment was trying to downplay it and say, no, I was just
having a bad day and you know, sorry about that everyone, you know, that kind of thing.
We probably on the edge of a can of worms right now.
[00:26:38] Nik: Sounds.
[00:26:40] Mark: But I just thought that was a good kicking off point to talk about dfs, not
the sofa company but this unpronounceable condition. So Prozopo metamorphose phozia. I
think if I’d practice enough, I could probably say it out loud. I think they abbreviated it to
something else. PMP or something like that, or pte. Pt, I don’t know, but I’ve written it in the chat
anyway. So if anyone wants to have a go at trying to pronounce that demon face, I think is pretty
much how it’s going to be known to most people. But if any, all joking apart, if people are starting
to report this or pick up on it, then I think hopefully you point them at this video and it might give
them a bit of peace of mind. Mind and also a direction to go in that isn’t just medicate yourself.
I wanted to talk to you. There was two other things. We kind of maybe could have approached
this in a better order, but the.
Your choice. Do you want to talk about.
Because here you are, you’re a parent, you’ve got. How many kids is it?
[00:27:44] Nik: Three.
[00:27:45] Mark: Three. Yeah.
If you don’t. Don’t have to, if you don’t want to. But what’s the rough ages we’re talking about?
Just ballparks.
[00:27:52] Nik: Yeah. 8, 11 and 15.
[00:27:55] Mark: Okay. So we got the teens going on.So do you want to talk about what it’s like as a spiritual person being a parent, because we’ve
touched on spiritual parenting a few times, or do you want to go into the whole.
Your background because you weren’t really religious or anything and I’ve known you for a long
time and I’d say you put up a bit of a fight when it came to spirituality.
[00:28:20] Nik: It probably makes sense to do it that way to talk about. About how. How
I’ve got to where I am now.
[00:28:26] Mark: Yeah. And then what it’s like being a spiritual parent.
[00:28:29] Nik: Yeah. And then. And then how I apply that. Yeah, exactly.
So strap yourself in. No, it’s a. So when I was younger, my. My parents had me christened, as a
lot of people do, but they never pushed me into any particular route of religion or anything like
that. They were. They were very, you know, open to me, you know, having life experiences and
living my life without sort of sending me to Sunday school or whatever it might be. And I’m not
saying that’s the right or wrong way of doing it. That’s just how it was for me. So in a way that
the people that I mixed with as well, they weren’t really religious or overly religious. So I was
therefore able to kind of, I guess, in a way, explore more things.
And from a young age, I Was given. Given a book about pyramids and other things. And, you
know, this was exciting and intriguing and it kind of just sparked a little flame in me, I guess, to.
Well, what I would say now is seeking the truth. But then it was kind of having curiosity and
having lots of questions and being critically thinking. So that was why I am, I guess, to a degree,
why you know, who I am. And quite an inquisitive person and always looking for answers.
And then obviously that backed up with science. But before we get to there, there was a brief
spell when I was probably not. Probably a dissimilar age to when I was seeing demon faces or
whatever they. Whatever we’re going to label them as.
And I had a very enthusiastic religious teacher at school and. And there was a little spell where I,
you know, started going to church services and with my mum for like Christmas church carols.
And I quite got into the singing and the hymns and, and, and, you know, the candles and all of
that. So it was bit of something there. I was quite interested in it.
[00:30:20] Mark: Maybe that’s. Sorry. Maybe that’s why, because that was starting to come
up in your life. Maybe that’s why the demon thing basically jumped into you because it’s like,
well, hang on a sec, someone’s talking to him about Jesus and God, right? Let’s drop his
vibration because otherwise he might actually pursue it. Just.
[00:30:39] Nik: It could well be Mark, because.
[00:30:40] Mark: Could well be.
[00:30:41] Nik: Yeah, you know, the person that was doing it was very enthusiastic. It was
a. He was a teacher that my, My parents knew and he was, he was a nice guy and, you know,
and so therefore, if someone’s being nice and teaching you about something positive, you’re
kind of going to be, you know, as a youngster you’re stood in that direction. So, yeah, that was
definitely happening.
But then it didn’t. Didn’t really progress. And then I became, you know, a teenager and more I
know what’s right kind of approach and going down the science route. And I would never say I, I
turned my back on God. That’s the thing with having this critical thinking, this mindset of mine is
that although I would look at, you know, even like us talking about demon faces doesn’t to me
seem like a bizarre thing. It’s just another thing to explore and consider and weigh up whether
it’s true or not true. And I think that’s a positive way for me to be. So, yeah, so I went down the
science route and I know you have as well, Mark, and obviously were taught about evolution, but
for me, that was just one other thing. It didn’t mean. It was the definitive answer to everything. I
didn’t, like, grab at that and say, that must be the way. But I didn’t equally. I didn’t become, you
know, I didn’t go down the religious road. And I just always had a, you know, curious mind about
God and what God would be and what Jesus would be.
[00:31:58] Mark: Yeah. So is it fair to say at that point you knew of Jesus in God? Yeah, it
wasn’t. Wasn’t. Kind of like it wasn’t there.
Yeah.
[00:32:08] Nik: And what I would say is quite interesting on that. And my wife’s not here
to defend herself, but for some reason, I knew a lot of the Bibles of the story. I’d never been to
Sunday school and I’d never been to church overly to be, you know, preached at or taught, but I
often would, when we were talking about things, I go, oh, yeah, that’s the story of so and so. And
she’s like, how do you know that? And it’s like, well, because I look.
[00:32:29] Mark: At lots of different things.
[00:32:30] Nik: It’s not just, you know, so. So it was always. It was always there, Mark.
But we’ll come to it and I guess in a bit. But, you know, I thought, oh, I was just learning a lot of
things, but maybe there was more to it. And I certainly feel there was. You know, these are
opportunities being presented to me. Perhaps so. But before we get there, that’s. That’s where
I’ve. I’ve been. I’ve never turned my back on God, never turn my back on religion per se. You
know, it’s just not.
[00:32:55] Mark: I mean, when I pursued, for me.
[00:32:57] Nik: Yeah.
[00:32:58] Mark: I can’t remember the first time, but I do recall that you came along to one
of my meditation classes. So at that time, I don’t think I was talking about Jesus and God. I was
very much talking about meditation and spirituality, like that side of spirituality. So was that your
first kind of.
[00:33:17] Nik: Yeah, a little bit of. There was a bit of beating me with this, with the
meditation stick, Mark, I’ll be honest. And that was so. It wasn’t.
It wasn’t a religious thing, you know, or, you know, a spiritual thing with regards to Jesus or God.
It was, you know, we were talking about different states and getting into stillness.
So, yeah, that’s, that’s. I did go into that a fair amount, but it was more of a dipping in and out of
it.
[00:33:44] Mark: That must have been round about 2010, round about then, I’m guessing.
[00:33:50] Nik: Yeah, around that Time. Yeah.[00:33:54] Mark: Okay.
[00:33:54] Nik: Yes. Yeah. So I followed that quite a bit, as you know, and then eventually
kind of got a bit more into the spiritual side of, well, let’s call it spirituality. But, you know, the
sitting down and getting still and I’ll leave up to you, if you want to talk about it, but the different
stages that I then went through, if you want to talk about.
[00:34:12] Mark: Well, I think. I think from my. From my memory, he came along to some of
the classes that I was doing at my house I used to have in Canterbury.
And then obviously I went up north and then moved to Italy. And it was when I came back from
Italy, I started really teaching with a lot more focus, and I started teaching down nearer to where
you live. Quite a big class in a church hall.
I think you came to a few of them.
And by then I had the ability to give people access to the energy. So I think when I first started
introducing it to you, it was a case of, well, there is this energy, but there were quite a lot of
hurdles for anyone really to get access to it. And the, you know, involved another group that
there were issues there. Okay. So when I came back after Italy, there was none of that. It was,
you know, at my discretion. If someone was spiritually ready and I was guided to do so then and
I could reveal the energy to them. And I think you were amongst some of the early people that I
gave access to the initiation to light and sound.
And that’s probably after quite a few years where we hadn’t been in touch. And prior to that,
really, I think you understood the concepts, but obviously the opportunity wasn’t there in the past.
So it’s good that you kind of stuck with it and you got to where you got to now.
But I think the. What’s interesting is, so you don’t. You didn’t really have a religious background.
You’re scientifically trained.
Then I revealed light and sound energy to you, and you went through the various stages, and
you had some pretty big expansions and things like this and made some big realizations,
keeping it simple. And then suddenly I kind of changed things for you and said, well, hang on a
second, I’m still on a journey. I’m quite a few years post enlightenment, and I’m making some big
realizations which, as you know, I share with in the teachings that I do and with people who are
interested. And I start going, hang on a sec. You know, the whole Jesus thing is a lot more
significant and the whole God thing is a lot more significant, and it’s not just about access to
light. Well, where does the light come from? It comes from God. And so suddenly you, you
know, this guy you’ve known for many, many years is telling you it’s all about God, it’s all about
Jesus, you know, and.
[00:36:46] Nik: That was interesting, Mark, because. And just going back a tiny bit when I
was coming to those meditation classes that you were doing, the bigger ones, I. There was
clearly something where I could see a slightly bigger picture and I could and I, and I had trust
and faith in you and what you were doing because I would come and help you set up and clear
up and you know, and so I could there something we’ve come on to that maybe something was
driving me to continue and stick at this. You know, there’s something here, it’s, you know, there’s
something unfolding and I certainly feel that might be the case. And then when, when I. Oh.
Gone.
[00:37:19] Mark: No, I was going to say, I mean I’ve got the advantage of being able to look
into things but absolutely. There’s a reason why I think when I was 11 and you were 8 or
something like that, we became friends. Well, I was more friend with your older brother. But all of
these things lined up.
[00:37:36] Nik: Yeah.
[00:37:37] Mark: You know, for what would unfold down the line. And I think, I think I can
only speak to myself but a lot of what we do in life gets in the way.
So it might take decades for things to unfold where it could have been a lot sooner. But it’s.
[00:37:55] Nik: Yeah. As this discussion unfolds, it’s interesting to think because. And this
is not like a judgment or a blanking. It could be like your unfolding had to occur before mine
could and it was like so, you know, saying that was the case.
[00:38:08] Mark: But I’ve said this, I think many times that I struggled a lot on my journey
and that helped me to help people to avoid the struggle. And yeah, I think it was nest to some
extent necessary and to some extent self inflicted wounds, you know.
[00:38:23] Nik: Well, yeah, because watching, watching you talk about Jesus and God, it,
it was, it was interesting to watch you do it because I, it almost felt like it was more of a. I
wouldn’t say it was harder for you, but there were sort of more obstacles maybe that you’d
created through your previous meditation and stuff. Whereas for me it was again goes back to
that those years of looking at stuff very critically. It, it was actually a really nice thing to happen
and it, and it was like, oh, I’ve been waiting for this and now it’s Great. Yeah. Which we can talk
about that in a minute.
[00:38:56] Mark: But yeah, well, let’s do that now. I mean, so jump forwards because
having been.
And come out the other side and you kind of just implied there was a sense of relief almost.
[00:39:07] Nik: Yeah.
[00:39:09] Mark: What’s it like?
Because you can go back 10 years, 20 years to now where you can actually openly say, yeah,
you’ve got God in your life, you’ve got, you know, you believe in Jesus in some capacity. I don’t
want to put words into your mouth, but what’s that like as a guy that’s fundamentally an everyday
guy who’s a scientist.
[00:39:27] Nik: A scientist, yeah. And it’s one of those things, like, it’s almost like no one
can, no one can take it away from you.
[00:39:35] Mark: It’s.
[00:39:35] Nik: It feels like it’s a.
It’s something that’s there that no one can touch for you. It’s. It’s always going to be yours. And
doesn’t matter what anyone could say or try and convince you or tell you this, the realizations
and the experiences you’ve had are real to you. And it’s like, that’s it. That’s, you know, it’s not
like I’m there as in I’ve achieved everything I want, but I’m there as in I feel totally comfortable in
my knowledge and my understanding of God and Jesus. It doesn’t mean there’s not more to learn,
but it means that, ah, okay, yeah, thank you, God. And thank you, Jesus. I’m here now. Yeah.
[00:40:10] Mark: Would you say that you’re religious?
[00:40:13] Nik: No. And I’ve. If we went back, like, even going into churches, I was a bit
like, oh, this is a bit strange. And I was never attracted to going to a religion or church, which,
yeah. To me it just kind of makes me always think you don’t really need religion or I didn’t need
religion, let’s say, because I can’t speak for others, I didn’t need religion to refind God. Well, God
was always there. But you know, for me, to me to get back on that path.
[00:40:39] Mark: Yeah. And what you’ve touched on there is really, I think, a big part or at
the core of what I’m. The work I’m doing or that I’m guided to do, if I’m more specific, the work
that comes through me, not from me, which is to say, well, look, you know, God existed before
religion. Jesus, Jesus wasn’t religious.
His followers created a religion and then perhaps that got hijacked and that’s a whole other story.
But What Jesus was teaching was spirituality. And what God is, is a pursuit or is the purpose of
spirituality.
But equally, I mean, I was going to do this near the start, actually, I completely forgot, but you’ve
reminded me is I was going to share a recommendation of sorts. So talking about spirituality and
religion, I just wanted to share this guy. So his name’s Freecastle. He’s a fellow Rumbler. He’s
got a channel that he’s just setting up, and he broadcasts live most evenings. He’s over in
America now, I would say. And he would say he’s religious. In fact, he’s very religious. He’s
Christian. But what I like is I tune in sometimes because. Not because I’m religious, but because
as a spiritual person, I’m interested in broadening my experience of different things. And he
always starts by reading a few psalms and reading some scripture. And I find that really nice.
And the way he does it, he’s. He’s quite sincere. And he keeps his language clean, which is a
refreshing thing because a lot of people have to put an F in every single other word.
And then he talks a little bit about the news, but normally with a bit of a religious, kind of spiritual
slant to it. And then he just engages with people. So I don’t agree with everything, but I like what
he’s doing. And I was chatting to him, and he said, look, my goal is to introduce the word of God
to people, and I don’t need them to be religious. I don’t need them to believe. But if they tune in
and they hear me reading a scripture or reading a psalm, and it motivates them, inspires them,
you know, and I respect that a lot. And the reason why I kind of wanted to bring this up, you just
reminded me, was the fact that. And you’ll find him on Rumble, so his name’s Free Castle.
Is the fact that.
I think I said this a few weeks back. Spirituality actually is in everything.
And there is a lot of good in religion, but religion itself isn’t spirituality, if that makes sense. So
what can happen is people can get caught up in religion, belonging to a group, following a set of
rules and the dogma and everything. And they almost lose the reason that it’s supposed to be
there is to actually be spiritual. And what you’re talking about in a journey you’ve been on. And
the journey I’ve been on is, you know, because I was Roman Catholic. And then I kind of let go
of that. And then I was heavily pushed into the ideology by the guy John, who was my old
teacher for about 12 years, he rammed home the idea that Jesus is not real and God isn’t real,
you know, etc, and it’s all about spiritual light and divinity of self and all this stuff. And I kind of
didn’t sit well with me, but went through that and then I came out the other side and then of my
own experiences discovered because as an enlightened person, you can actually explore things
and know things not from your mind, not from your brain, not from your body, not from your
physical. And I started to go, hang on a sec. Jesus is real and God is real and it’s not what
people are portraying in per se, in religion. It’s greater and it’s not. Science isn’t getting it right.
You know, it’s like that middle ground. But I do value, I mean, this guy’s doing good work and is a
good saying that says if they’re not against you, then they’re for you. So I’m happy to give him a
shout out. And you know, it’s like what I would say is what you’ve done, which is keep your mind
open and always base it on what you experience. Absolutely from yourself. Because you said
something I think which is really at the core and the crux of spirituality, which is it cannot be
taken from you. I think that’s so valuable and important.
I did want to talk about being a spiritual parent, but I’ve also noticed that obviously as ever, time
is flying on so we can always get you back in, hopefully to talk about more stuff. Should we have
a look at some of the questions and just see, see where people are at with their questions.
[00:45:17] Nik: From your show, Mark.
[00:45:19] Mark: Well, you’re my guest.
Let’s have a look at some of the questions.
So what we’ve got here is. It’s quite a long one actually.
Millie asks. Dear Mark, I’d like to ask about the current state of affairs in the world. There seems
to be a lot of doom and gloom thinking, a negative portrayal of the world in the media, the film
industry, etc. There is one war, another one could possibly start there. Is the climate change an
apparent threat to human existence, etc.
Is it the case that it’s darkest before the dawn and what is happening in the world now is an
expression of that? The light is shining so brightly that it is bringing to the surface all the
negativity. So in fact is it that the world is a much better state than. Sorry, my ability to read has
just left me than what we are led to Believe, and perhaps there are even better things to come,
but the powers to be don’t want us to have hope and faith. Many thanks for your views on this.
I’ve got my own insights into this, but I’d be kind of, what do you pick up on and what’s your first
thoughts?
[00:46:32] Nik: My first thoughts as you were reading it, it reminded me of something
earlier today, funny enough, and I was talking to someone who. Who’d got somewhat into
conspiracy theories or that sort of thinking a little bit, and. And they become a little bit stuck in
that thinking, and I just sort of nudged them and said, yeah, I’ve been there. You know, I told you
about looking into pyramids and whatever else, and, you know, it’s exciting. And sometimes, and
then sometimes it can become negative. But what it doesn’t do and what, from my experience, I
can’t speak for others, but what it doesn’t do is in any way progress me spiritually. So you kind of
get, you know, stuck in your head a little bit. And it’s with like, you know, the world. There might
be bad things going on in the world, but really, if we look back in our lifetimes, at least there was
a war going on somewhere in the world, always, pretty much, or conflict or killing or fighting or
whatever. So there were always dark and negative things as to whether or not we’re at a
pinnacle of it now. And it’s the darkest point before the dawn. You know, in some ways, I like to
think it is. And with all the things that we do and, you know, in the spiritual sense, you know, I
like to think I’m certainly getting to, you know, I’ve been at the darkest place, if you want to call it
that. And I’m moving into, you know, I mean, a more light place, shall we say.
[00:47:43] Mark: Yeah, I mean, they. There’s two key. There’s two things that they. They
pulled out, they said, in the media and film industry. And so, look, I’d say from the top, with a few
exceptions, the purpose of the film industry, the purpose of media, especially in the last 10
years, is to spread fear, negativity, you know, and I’ve alluded to this many times in the past, but
like, I, you know, I quit my Netflix subscription and Amazon prime because I was just finding
about 89% of it was portraying evil and darkness and things that are actually negative, although
they’re portrayed in such a way as to make them attractive and fun and aimed at kids half the
time, things like magic.
And so if you, if you give your attention to media, the mainstream media that is the, you know,
the, the media complex and to the film industry. Then you’re subjecting yourself to satanic, dark
and evil propaganda. And so you will see the world in a very negative way. As for is it darkest
before the dawn, sadly not. It’s dark because darkness is running rampant in. And that’s running
rampant in the people who are running the world and running these media organizations. So
there are a few good ones out there. But for the massive majority, the forces of darkness have
done a very good job of captivating the attention and the communication streams of the world.
And you know, people talk about things like industrial, military complex and you know,
BlackRock and people like this for good reason.
These multinational billion dollar ventures just follow the money is another way of looking at it.
So it’s dark because the forces of darkness are doing so much unopposed. And so the idea,
well, it’s darkest before the dawn, so yay, it’s dark. Great, that means dawn’s coming. No, dawn
won’t come unless people who are good take personal responsibility.
And that brings me to the next point, which is if you give your attention to something, you did it
through choice. If it makes you negative or dark, then that’s the result of your choice. So one of
the tricks is to make us think we have no choice. So if we can remember that we are only
responsible for our reaction and we are only responsible for the choices we can make, then you
can make choices like we invest your money, where you invest your time, how you
communicate, what you communicate, what you give your attention to, what you don’t give your
attention to, and your world, your personal world, which is your inner world. How you feel, how
you think can become increasingly positive.
And that can translate into spiritual growth and soul growth through choosing what is good in the
face of what is bad. And that’s the victory, that’s the win, that’s the goal. And what the forces of
darkness want you to do or want to do is make you feel powerless and make you feel negative
and stop your spiritual growth and stop you making good choices.
And if the last choice you ever have is to say no, then you’re still making a choice.
And you know, you don’t take anything else with you except what you have, except the outcome
of the good choices you have made in life. So it’s hopeful that it’s dark before the dawn. And
therefore that suggests that this is an automatic process where the light will come, but it’s not. It
has to be through the actions and choices of the individuals.
And is the world in a better state than we actually believe? No, it’s actually in a terrible state.
But that doesn’t mean that there isn’t hope. One of the greatest, you know, what Jesus did when
he raised people from the dead, when he healed people, when he did miracles, was to basically
say, well, if you believe, then I will demonstrate what is possible. But if you choose not to
believe, then you will get what you want. And that’s why certain, you know, there’s stories of why
didn’t he heal the sick wife of one of his apostles? Well, because that one doubted.
And yet the others who showed great faith, he rose Lazarus from the dead.
You know, he was, he wasn’t limited in what he could do. He was.
They were limited in what they allowed themselves to believe in terms of the power of God. So,
you know, I think there is doom and gloom, but why are we giving our attention to it?
How many, you know, has there ever been a positive change in the world that wasn’t done by
the few?
You know, and the only thing we’re responsible for is ourselves? And I’ve talked many times
about. It’s not about convincing others to be more in the light. It’s about allowing our own light to
become brighter and brighter and brighter and inspiring people to aspire to be more like that,
which is good. So that’s kind of my take on things. And I’m talking quickly because obviously
time is ticking. But I think it’s a good observation and.
Yeah. What do you kind of. What do you think now, Nik?
[00:53:03] Nik: Certainly all I was going to say was from. On a positive part of it as well.
Certainly from my perspective is that there certainly seems to be a lot more revelation of truth.
And whether that’s just. I’m more observant to it, I don’t know. Or, or it’s actually. There is more
coming out. It certainly feels like there is.
[00:53:19] Mark: Yeah, you picked up on something really important there. The, the, the
correlate to that is the reason why the forces of darkness are able to run rampant. Rampant at
this time is a lack of three fundamental things. So truth, which is people valuing truth. So the
truth is there, but if people don’t value it, they don’t seek it. So that’s why I’ve talked many times
in the past about seekers of truth. Or to seek the truth is to seek God. So if someone’s not ready
for God in their life, then point them in the direction of truth and say, look, one of the most noble
things you can do as a good person is to seek the truth in all matters. The second thing is
righteousness. So righteousness is knowing what is right. And that can only be in place once
there is truth, because you cannot act on deception.
The third thing is justice. Now, it might not be our place to bring about justice, but justice is a
natural conclusion of there being truth and righteousness. So in the absence of truth, there will
be no righteousness and there will be no justice. And so what can we do is to seek the truth,
communicate the truth, speak the truth, value the truth, and demand the truth.
Yeah, and what you’re picking up on, I think is that that is happening, you know, so that’s pretty
good.
Millie and Toshi, who I know are in the chat, also asked another question. So dear Mark, we
have a question about joy. In a previous show you said that joy occurs naturally as a result of
living the six virtues. What about expressing joy happiness spontaneously as a result of a
positive situation or outcome? For example, passing an exam or receiving good news? Is
jumping with joy in such a situation an expression of joy or an overreaction which could be linked
to ego. If you get something out of it or in some way it’s about you.
Where is the fine line between so kind of like second part of the question, where is the fine line
between being neutral and so neutral that you become too detached from the world and robotic
as a consequence? Your thoughts on this would be much appreciated. P.S. in the process of
formulating this question and discussing it between us, I have gained a new understanding, but
would be grateful for your answers nevertheless. Thank you. I’d love to know what the
understanding was. So if you want to drop us an audio voice thingy, then that would be great. Or
write it down and send it to us and maybe we’ll read it out in one of the next shows. But first of
all, it’s a theoretical question because no one has ever become so spiritually neutral that they
are detached from the world.
Spiritual neutrality, true spiritual neutrality goes hand in hand with acceptance. And acceptance
is permissive. It allows things to come closer. So the more you are neutral, the less you are
judgmental. And the more you can accept. And then the more you can accept, the more you can
just not push things away in your life. Now that doesn’t mean that you become non
discriminatory necessarily. It doesn’t mean that you get overwhelmed by the forces of darkness.
It simply means that you’re being able to be in more situations without becoming polarized in
them. If that makes Sense.
So the question itself hints at the problem.
The question comes from the brain or from the thinking part, the intellectual part, the head,
keeping things simple. And it’s a veiled worry, if I become more and more neutral, will I become
detached?
Yes, the answer is yes, if you carry on being in the head, because that’s where the question
came from. So people can understand neutrality. And I’ll put a link to a discussion about this.
It’s quite a long time ago, so I can’t remember which number it was, but I’m pretty sure this came
up where if you understand the concept of neutrality, you can play it out in how you react
intellectually to things. So you can choose to be neutral. You can tell yourself, right, don’t react,
just let it be. Now that is a good starting point for trying to develop neutrality. But neutrality is
more of a state than an attitude. If you keep it at the attitude level, then you’re in your head. It’s
only when you allow it to become more from the heart that you.
That it becomes like a state. And the state of neutrality is totally awesome, very powerful.
But when you’re doing it from the head as an attitude, a way of being doingness, then. Sorry, so
a way of doing, then it never really becomes a state, it’s just an idea, a way like a different
approach. And that can lead to false detachment where you’re basically just playing out being
neutral. But it’s only, you know, going on up here, it’s much more about neutrality being part of
the bundle of love coming from the heart. And it’s a lot harder to explain how to do that than it is
to explain the concept that people can put into action in their heads, would you smiling next to
greedy.
[00:58:30] Nik: No, I agree. And I think to add to that, to give an example of certainly my
understanding or take of it, of what joy is and how it does come from the heart. And. And I can
think of experiences where it feels like it’s kind of welling up and coming upwards into you. So if
you just think this is one that I always think and I could be wrong, don’t you know? But like if
you’re with someone as well, and there’s a little baby or something that’s like something tangible
like that, a tiny little baby who smiles or does something, that inner joy just comes up and you
can feel it. It’s not forced, it’s not unnatural, it’s not in the head, it’s not like, oh, it’s a baby, it must
be cute, it’s like you see something happen and it happens. Whereas if you go to, I don’t know, a
comedy show or something and you’re laughing heartily, I’m not sure that’s joy, per se. It might
turn into joy, but it. That’s more in your head. So they’re just examples where I think that answers
that.
[00:59:25] Mark: I’m glad you said that, because it brings us back to the first point, which I
kind of went straight into the second point. The first point is in a situation where there’s an
outcome and the outcome triggers it, it’s more than likely, most of the time, intellectually driven.
In other words, I’m happy because X has happened. That now opens the door for Y. So whether
it’s I’ve passed my driving test or I’ve got the exam grades I wanted, I can go to university, or I’ve
got this result back from the doctors and it’s all good, or whatever it is, there’s been some
anticipation and there’s maybe putting life on hold until you get this thing. And then there’s.
Right, this now allows me to move on to the next step in life. In other words, it’s what’s going on
in your head.
It doesn’t necessarily mean there’s ego.
And actually, if there’s ever ego, then there cannot be joy.
So if there is ego, it’s just going to be happiness based on your experience, on your
expectations.
It’s like satisfaction that a positive outcome has happened and you feel good. And look, when
someone gets good news, there’s going to be all kinds of hormonal stuff that gets cascaded. It’s
like the power of words. There’s studies done that if you go to the gym and you say one thing to
yourself, that’s a negative phraseology, like, I can’t do this, it’s too heavy, it’s too hard, I’m too
tired, or anything like that. They’ve proven that your performance, you won’t be able to do as
many reps, you won’t be able to do as much weight. If you say one word that is positive and then
do the exercise, you’ll be stronger and go for longer. And it could literally just be. Yes, that’s how
simple it is. So a big part of the potential cascade of feeling good could just be positive thoughts
in your head triggering a positive reaction in you.
And the jumping for joy is more than likely an intellectual thing leading to an emotional reaction.
Joy isn’t an emotion.
And again, the more neutral and still you are, the More, there is almost like a bubbling up of joy.
In other words, there can be joy in bad news or good news.
The more present you are in the situation, your state is not dependent on information or
outcomes in the world around you, because you’re in the world, but less touched by it. And not in
a detached way, in a more present way, kind of talking around the subject, really there. I’m well
aware that there are more questions and there’s more that I wanted to chat over with you, Nik,
but this has been a really good kind of first dip into the foray of having a guest on the show. I
hope it’s been all right for you.
[01:02:21] Nik: Well, I hope I didn’t disappoint. So, yeah.
[01:02:23] Mark: But it’s been.
[01:02:24] Nik: It’s been fun.
[01:02:25] Mark: Thank you. And for the people in the chat, I’m really sorry I didn’t get a
chance to interact more with you all there, but it’s been great to have you joining us. I would
really love to know your feedback on whether you found this whole kind of two of us experience
useful. Maybe it’s given you a different perspective on things.
Feel free not. Not in the chat, but in the comments afterwards so I can have a look at it later.
Because the moment we end this video, the chat disappears. It’d be really nice just to have your
honest feedback, what you found valuable, what you’ve liked. And as ever, if you’ve got any
questions, do send them over and I’ll do my best. Next week’s gonna be a Halloween special, so
that should be interesting. It will be on actual Halloween night because it is going to be Thursday, and I would say hold fire
on the usual Halloween frivolities until you’ve seen the show. If you miss out on it for one year,
you might be doing yourself a favor, but I won’t really want to give away too much more than
that. So thank you everyone for joining us. Thank you, Nik, and it’s been a real pleasure to
have you along for the journey. And welcome again to everyone who’s new to this show. We’ve
just passed 50. I think we’re on 51 subscribers. So I’m really, really grateful to one and all of you.
And yeah, let’s carry on next week, making more sense of life.
One episode, one question at a time. Good night, everyone, and God bless. Thanks. Hello, this
is Mark Zaretti, and I wanted to thank you for taking the time to listen to this podcast. If you’re
looking for more spiritual resources, then definitely check out thewaybackgroup.org and if you’ve
enjoyed this, then I highly recommend my other podcast, which is called the Way Back to
Spiritual Awakening. I look forward to joining you on our next live show podcast.